2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[RedNEO]

@Mcl-H Oh don't get me wrong, i don't think they'll be on par with Mercedes this year. By fixing their issues this year, i'm talking about having fully eliminated the core problems they ran into at the start. Honda did say after all there is no use in copying existing designs as it would only limit yourself to that design. They want something of their own, and to be honest, who can blame them?

Let's be honest here though, who really knows how long mercedes might have been working on that V6T engine and how many failures they ran into even before coming close to the 2014 engine changes? They might have had similar failures and finally got the light and found exactly what they're running now, which could convince Lewis to step in and go for it at Mercedes?

On one hand, Honda is 3 years behind Mercedes, but they actually could be a full 6 or 7 years behind if Mercedes slammed a bunchload of money at the project. It was definately worth it in the end, look at all the titles they hauled in, and all the engines they sell to other teams, with more benefit there too, AND all the revenue and positive exposure they get through that.

Honda no doubt stepped in 'too late'. Just look at Renault in 2014 and all the mayhem there. How easily that is forgotten! That's still the reason why RedBull runs TagHeuer branded engines, after all, AND look at the issues they are still having AND that they're still behind Mercedes. Only Ferrari seems to have come a good lot closer to Mercedes and still the Prancing Horse's qually mode is miles behind the Silver Star's.

Aha, I indeed misunderstood what you meant. I absolutely agree with you when it comes to the advantage Mercedes has got over Honda. Therefore, I can't see Honda getting on-par with Mercedes. They are so far ahead in development, that Renault and Honda would only be able to catch up if Mercedes development were to be freezed for at least a year. And that will not happen.

And I have not forgotten about Renault. Renault is one of the reasons I don't believe Honda will make it work. Because after Renault's awful start to this engine formula, they have not been able to make it work either. Once you are trailing behind, it becomes too difficult to catch up. Ferrari has almost closed the gap, but in the end, Mercedes still has the advantage.

So what makes people think Honda can cancel their deficit is beyond me.

That's right, I'm just glad McLaren themselves have recognised that and are making moves to secure there future. As Alonso said they need to get it done quickly as 2018 cars are already being developed. But boy what a feeling that would be for the boys and girls at Woking if they find out they will have the best engine next year and if they get everything perfect they could be in for a special year.

[RedNEO]

The boss of Mercedes F1 engines back then Ola Kallaenius, is now the heir apparent to the CEO Dieter Zetsche and is apparently minded to work with the executive committee at McLaren of the Bahrainis and Mansour Ojjeh, while Toto Wolff and Niki Lauda remain opposed to Mercedes supplying McLaren again.

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/07/ ... ne-supply/

Interesting article by James Allen.I can see why Toto and Niki fear it more since they are more involved with the race team and clearly feel McLaren could be a threat. It's easy to understand Zac's words to Horner about watching the same movie now but will it have the same ending?

[Vasconia]

And I have not forgotten about Renault. Renault is one of the reasons I don't believe Honda will make it work. Because after Renault's awful start to this engine formula, they have not been able to make it work either. Once you are trailing behind, it becomes too difficult to catch up. Ferrari has almost closed the gap, but in the end, Mercedes still has the advantage.

What Ferrari did between 2014 and 2015(with the token system) shows that is possible to close the gap if you make a good job. Just keep in mind that in 2014 Ferrari had a small and powerless engine. Its beyond me how they could improve so much in only one season being so limited with the Token system. Honda and Renault learn from them.

Anyway even Ferrari hasn´t been able to close the gag completely. Mercedes has still a better PU and it will be extremely difficult to be on par with them.

[diffuser]

Despite of having merc PU,Williams was behind of mclaren until bad pit stop. So Williams has nothing. Williams is going backward everyday and every month passed.

Yet they finished ahead and got the point, and two races ago got a podium. But that is not the point. What I'm saying is that they are stuck in this limbo of average results while mclaren are stuck on a roll of terrible results but have the potential for good results.

And how did this limbo for Williams started?
1. Lack of results
2. Leading to lack of sponsorships
3. Leading to lower prize money
4. Leading to lower budgets
5. Leading to personnel leaving
6. Leading to further lack of competitiveness
7. Leading to limbo

McLaren is in stage 4, soon going over to stage 5. Basically, Honda has already become McLaren's only option, while we all know Honda will not close the gap to Mercedes under these engine regulations. And what if in October Honda decides to leave the sport? Where does that leave McLaren? Exactly, with a Mercedes engine, being in the exact same situation as Williams is now. One-way ticket to limbo. Just great.. really great.

Maybe Honda Leaving McLaren will be more akin to BMW leaving Sauber ?

[diffuser]

And I have not forgotten about Renault. Renault is one of the reasons I don't believe Honda will make it work. Because after Renault's awful start to this engine formula, they have not been able to make it work either. Once you are trailing behind, it becomes too difficult to catch up. Ferrari has almost closed the gap, but in the end, Mercedes still has the advantage.

What Ferrari did between 2014 and 2015(with the token system) shows that is possible to close the gap if you make a good job. Just keep in mind that in 2014 Ferrari had a small and powerless engine. Its beyond me how they could improve so much in only one season being so limited with the Token system. Honda and Renault learn from them.

Anyway even Ferrari hasn´t been able to close the gag completely. Mercedes has still a better PU and it will be extremely difficult to be on par with them.

That first year, the token system wasn't that restrictive. Remember it increased it constraints every year.

[Singabule]

BMW v10 is the second strongest engine meanwhile honda is nowhere near their rival. Budget wire maybe but technical wise definitely not. But if we count the New regulation for 2021, honda twin turbo May match or topped their rival from Day one. The biggest headache explained by Hasegawa is to create efficient CC but still maintain acceptable exhaust energy. Mguh did not play honda strength at all and cannot transfered to road car economically. This also explain Toyota lmp1 Which has more and larger displacement yet more economical than porsce with mguh

[Vasconia]

And I have not forgotten about Renault. Renault is one of the reasons I don't believe Honda will make it work. Because after Renault's awful start to this engine formula, they have not been able to make it work either. Once you are trailing behind, it becomes too difficult to catch up. Ferrari has almost closed the gap, but in the end, Mercedes still has the advantage.

What Ferrari did between 2014 and 2015(with the token system) shows that is possible to close the gap if you make a good job. Just keep in mind that in 2014 Ferrari had a small and powerless engine. Its beyond me how they could improve so much in only one season being so limited with the Token system. Honda and Renault learn from them.

Anyway even Ferrari hasn´t been able to close the gag completely. Mercedes has still a better PU and it will be extremely difficult to be on par with them.

That first year, the token system wasn't that restrictive. Remember it increased it constraints every year.

Yeah, but restrictions were the same for all and Ferrari did a much better job than Renault. Honda had obviously more restrictions but in 2017 they have shown that restrictions can only be an excuse if you have a bad design.

[TAG]

What Ferrari did between 2014 and 2015(with the token system) shows that is possible to close the gap if you make a good job. Just keep in mind that in 2014 Ferrari had a small and powerless engine. Its beyond me how they could improve so much in only one season being so limited with the Token system.

Ecclestone has long had an explanation for that.

[Vasconia]

What Ferrari did between 2014 and 2015(with the token system) shows that is possible to close the gap if you make a good job. Just keep in mind that in 2014 Ferrari had a small and powerless engine. Its beyond me how they could improve so much in only one season being so limited with the Token system.

Ecclestone has long had an explanation for that.

Well not a long explanation, but pure rumours. Its hard to believe that a team helps their rivals but I can´t deny it because I have obviously no information to do it.

[diffuser]

What Ferrari did between 2014 and 2015(with the token system) shows that is possible to close the gap if you make a good job. Just keep in mind that in 2014 Ferrari had a small and powerless engine. Its beyond me how they could improve so much in only one season being so limited with the Token system. Honda and Renault learn from them.

Anyway even Ferrari hasn´t been able to close the gag completely. Mercedes has still a better PU and it will be extremely difficult to be on par with them.

That first year, the token system wasn't that restrictive. Remember it increased it constraints every year.

Yeah, but restrictions were the same for all and Ferrari did a much better job than Renault. Honda had obviously more restrictions but in 2017 they have shown that restrictions can only be an excuse if you have a bad design.

My point was that Ferrari Ran a year and then made adjustments (between the 1st and 2nd year) in a less restrictive token system. Honda came in the 2nd year.

Anyways I think the real issue was that Ferrari just didn't get it as wrong as Honda did the first year.

Honda came in(as they did this year) with what appeared to be a not so tested PU. I keep thinking back to what Wazari said in early Spring testing. He said he kept trying to get the young Buck Honda Engineers to stop adding improvements to the PU and start testing them and he was kind of ridiculed because of that. They accused him of something, not sure exactly what.

Anyways we are ever closer to the TRUE spec 3. We have a non power track coming up then a month off (1.5 Months total). Hopefully by then we'll have the full true spec 3...I'M hoping that since a part of the Spec 3 has been introduced they are fewer variable that can go wrong in the remainder of that spec 3.

[ZakB]

What Ferrari did between 2014 and 2015(with the token system) shows that is possible to close the gap if you make a good job. Just keep in mind that in 2014 Ferrari had a small and powerless engine. Its beyond me how they could improve so much in only one season being so limited with the Token system.

Ecclestone has long had an explanation for that.

Well not a long explanation, but pure rumours. Its hard to believe that a team helps their rivals but I can´t deny it because I have obviously no information to do it.

Mercedes helped Ferrari? Lol, what actually happened is that Ferrari just threw some money towards the Mercedes guys that were responsible for engine development. This is the only way to make progress, but Honda still seems to think that they can do it on their own. But let's wait until oktober, they at least seem to have fixed the reliability problems, so maybe the have finally found the right path (let's hope so).

[HPD]

Zak:
-"We're a big team that knows how to win races and championships so I think most of the teams, while it's a shame to see where we are, they like us where we are," Brown told Sky Sports News' Craig Slater. "They don't want to get us too close to them which is understandable."
- "we ultimately think that Honda can get the job done".

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... m=referral

For me, mclaren honda is already confirmed for 2018. I hope the "rumors" stop. (It's very tiring to read the same thing every day)

[RS200E]

Zak:
-"We're a big team that knows how to win races and championships so I think most of the teams, while it's a shame to see where we are, they like us where we are," Brown told Sky Sports News' Craig Slater. "They don't want to get us too close to them which is understandable."
- "we ultimately think that Honda can get the job done".

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... m=referral

For me, mclaren honda is already confirmed for 2018. I hope the "rumors" stop. (It's very tiring to read the same thing every day)

+1

[RS200E]

What Ferrari did between 2014 and 2015(with the token system) shows that is possible to close the gap if you make a good job. Just keep in mind that in 2014 Ferrari had a small and powerless engine. Its beyond me how they could improve so much in only one season being so limited with the Token system.

Ecclestone has long had an explanation for that.

Well not a long explanation, but pure rumours. Its hard to believe that a team helps their rivals but I can´t deny it because I have obviously no information to do it.

The onus is on the creators of the rumour to prove there is something solid about it. So don't ever think that you have any responsibility to prove a rumour wrong as it's mostly a waste of time.

[etusch]

Zak:
-"We're a big team that knows how to win races and championships so I think most of the teams, while it's a shame to see where we are, they like us where we are," Brown told Sky Sports News' Craig Slater. "They don't want to get us too close to them which is understandable."
- "we ultimately think that Honda can get the job done".

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... m=referral

For me, mclaren honda is already confirmed for 2018. I hope the "rumors" stop. (It's very tiring to read the same thing every day)

He is a team boss and aware this now. very promising. How many years he is behind Dennis