Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[godlameroso]

Honda urea grease is awesome, makes their release bearings easily last 160,000kms.

[gruntguru]

Someone should tell Honda Racing Team.

[wuzak]

Who makes the Honda MGU-H?

IHI.

Do they make the MGUH or the turbo?

[Singabule]

Who makes the Honda MGU-H?

IHI.

Do they make the MGUH or the turbo?

As far as it knew honda mguh is produced in house with consultant help. IHI obligated to package it within their turbocharger. Why not buying it from bosch instead.. Just wondering

[J.A.W.]

IHI.

Do they make the MGUH or the turbo?

As far as it knew honda mguh is produced in house with consultant help. IHI obligated to package it within their turbocharger. Why not buying it from bosch instead.. Just wondering

Nippon pride?
Or maybe, a longstanding co-affiliation for R&D/competition, akin to the re-uplink - with F1 Team McLaren..

[kasio]

Do they make the MGUH or the turbo?

As far as it knew honda mguh is produced in house with consultant help. IHI obligated to package it within their turbocharger. Why not buying it from bosch instead.. Just wondering

Nippon pride?
Or maybe, a longstanding co-affiliation for R&D/competition, akin to the re-uplink - with F1 Team McLaren..

May be just IHI is better? why do you think something is chosen because of pride in F1? and bying ? its not like bying as these components are not produced as standartized pieces... they ar emostly custom made in small quantities specially for this motor. I wouldn call this kind of collaboration a bying.

[Craigy]

As far as it knew honda mguh is produced in house with consultant help. IHI obligated to package it within their turbocharger. Why not buying it from bosch instead.. Just wondering

Nippon pride?
Or maybe, a longstanding co-affiliation for R&D/competition, akin to the re-uplink - with F1 Team McLaren..

May be just IHI is better? why do you think something is chosen because of pride in F1? and bying ? its not like bying as these components are not produced as standartized pieces... they ar emostly custom made in small quantities specially for this motor. I wouldn call this kind of collaboration a bying.

IHI were originally involved with Mercedes-Benz. On a commercial level, IHI and Daimler are not unfriendly - they had a joint venture until 2013 (which IHI ended up buying MB out of).

It's consequently not at all impossible that IHI have worked on similar turbomachinery to that in the Honda 2017+ PU, but in the past with MB.

Ultimately, outsourcing these specialised parts seems to be de rigeur this year. My understanding is that Ferrari have a partnership with Honeywell and Renault with Pankl. I don't know who MB work with this year, if anyone.

[noname]

Ultimately, outsourcing these specialised parts seems to be de rigeur this year. My understanding is that Ferrari have a partnership with Honeywell and Renault with Pankl. I don't know who MB work with this year, if anyone.

Outsourcing you mentioned is the thing of the past, most of F1 engine makers is doing as much as they can in house. The only known to me exception is Ferrari, MGU-H/-K and related electronics are sourced outside. However contract includes exclusivity, nobody else can get them.

Honeywell and Pankl were involved in developing turbochargers, they were kept away from electric and electronic parts.

[R_GoWin]

Aston Martin, Ilmor.......all looking at 2021, can only mean more teams surely.

Honda....pressure is on.

Current contenders know what kind of hardness wait for new manufacturers. I think only pressure on honda is catching merc ferrari and if Honda can do this by saving low cog lighter pu they are good

You would imagine Ilmor stands a good chance, being in a position of privilege with intimate knowledge of Renault's PU and combustion system from consultancy work in 2014/2015 and now Honda's.?

[shady]

Aston Martin, Ilmor.......all looking at 2021, can only mean more teams surely.

Honda....pressure is on.

Current contenders know what kind of hardness wait for new manufacturers. I think only pressure on honda is catching merc ferrari and if Honda can do this by saving low cog lighter pu they are good

You would imagine Ilmor stands a good chance, being in a position of privilege with intimate knowledge of Renault's PU and combustion system from consultancy work in 2014/2015 and now Honda's.?

Ilmor == HPP initially, so not only Renault but MB-AMG too. Super unique position wrt the new formula(s)

[etusch]

Aston Martin, Ilmor.......all looking at 2021, can only mean more teams surely.

Honda....pressure is on.

Current contenders know what kind of hardness wait for new manufacturers. I think only pressure on honda is catching merc ferrari and if Honda can do this by saving low cog lighter pu they are good

You would imagine Ilmor stands a good chance, being in a position of privilege with intimate knowledge of Renault's PU and combustion system from consultancy work in 2014/2015 and now Honda's.?

If it is just about of combustion and if manufacturers didn't put on what they had learnt from ilmor...

[taperoo2k]

They need more osmium in the bearings. A tinge of depleted uranium helps too.

I think the FIA might class depleted Uranium as an exotic material.....

[godlameroso]

They need more osmium in the bearings. A tinge of depleted uranium helps too.

I think the FIA might class depleted Uranium as an exotic material.....

5.17.7 Reciprocating and rotating components :
a) Reciprocating and rotating components must not be manufactured from graphitic matrix, metal matrix composites or ceramic materials, this restriction does not apply to the clutch and any seals.
b) Rolling elements of rolling element bearings must be manufactured from an iron based alloy or from a ceramic material.

If the bearing is also a seal for the MGU-H, you can use what you please it seems. As long as your rolling element is iron alloy or ceramic based. Then there's also the coating loophole.

5.16.2 The restrictions in Article 5.16.1 do not apply to coatings provided the total coating thickness does not exceed 25% of the section thickness of the underlying base material in all axes. In all cases, other than under Article 5.16.3(b), the relevant coating must not exceed 0.8mm.
Where the coating is based on Gold, Platinum, Ruthenium, Iridium or Rhenium, the coating thickness must not exceed 0.035mm.

For reference here's 5.16.1
5.16.1 Unless explicitly permitted for a specific application, the following materials may not be used anywhere on the power unit :
a) Magnesium based alloys.
b) Metal Matrix Composites (MMC’s).
c) Intermetallic materials.
d) Alloys containing more than 5% by weight of Platinum, Ruthenium, Iridium or Rhenium.
e) Copper based alloys containing more than 2.75% Beryllium.
f) Any other alloy class containing more than 0.25% Beryllium.
g) Tungsten base alloys.
h) Ceramics and ceramic matrix composites.

Doesn't say anything about depleted uranium or osmium.

Looking on, there's quite a bit of critical parts that can be changed without incurring a penalty.
The intake system.
Exhaust systems.
Fuel rail, hoses, accumulators, injectors.
Spark plugs, coil packs.
Cooling pumps, oil pumps, breathers, catch tanks, fuel pumps, accumulators.
MGU-H mounting accessories.

All of these can have a profound influence on performance.

[ZakB]

Honda's level of investment - both in terms of finances and resource - backs that claim.

"We can't give you actual numbers, but we have three times as many people now in Sakura compared to the start of the project," adds Yamamoto. "Milton Keynes is also future-proofed. We moved into new facilities, which can house a second team, last year.

"As part of our long-term recruitment, we're continuing to invest in Sakura, hiring new people and drafting in people from other departments, including from mass production.

"We know as a company how much we've invested into this era of Formula 1. We can see our investment in our members of staff and facilities we have grown and developed as well.

"We are having huge investment in our facilities and in people as well. Once it comes altogether, it's going to work. That's our belief."

[Joseki]

It's always too late and not too much. They needed more people and more money than Mercedes from day 1 with the amount of work they had to do to catch up.
This project was based on a colossal mix of ignorance of the level required to compete in F1 and arrogance to hire inexperienced staff from other divisions.
I really hope that spec 4 is a game changer because I suspect the board isn't really happy to have the Honda brand associated with constant failure and humiliation in Europe.