Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[max_speed]

Does anyone has info on whether they are going to test "full spec 3" or "spec 4" in upcoming test. this is the golden opportunity for them to test the "update" on real track and spend "remaining" period of summer break to perfect it out.

[jz11]

What a week. Sauber cancelled their 2018 deal with Honda and now McLaren is ahead of Sauber in the Constructors championship.

Still a long way to go but if Honda can get another 40bhp in the second half, I would say game on for 2018

I don't get Sauber, I think they are going to regret their decision a lot.

Rumor is that Dietrich Mateschitz has a meeting with Honda on Tuesday about the engine supply for STR (and maybe for a deal for the whole team..)

it makes sense only in one way - Sauber never meant to really go for Honda, they just used that as a bargaining chip to get a better deal with Ferrari (which may contain something extra now, not just the PU)

[sosic2121]

Red Bull and Ferrari drivers have both repeatedly said that they do not have a special qualifying mode to their engine at all.

At least not any more

IMO, Q mode is whan they don't use MGU-H to charge the battery and gain performance that way.
do they have any other way to increase power, i don't

[aran.vtec]

Does anyone has info on whether they are going to test "full spec 3" or "spec 4" in upcoming test. this is the golden opportunity for them to test the "update" on real track and spend "remaining" period of summer break to perfect it out.

Would also like to know what they plan on testing , Maybe more chassis related tests?

[restless]

I'm sure there were be updates, but I highly doubt the big "Spec 4". Not enough time. I am beginning the wonder if we will see that update this season. "Spec 4" has the combustion process that our team was specifically working on and for selfish reasons I would like very much to see this update implemented. I know it will but when??? More power, same fuel consumption, better torque characteristics. IMO, "Spec 4" is what should have been used at season's start but wasn't with weight and COG reasons I was told. Sigh.............

So, Honda are trying to get COG (center of gravity?) of spec1 & combustion from "team Wazari" integrated into spec4?
Not a full rework but "blending" best of different designs

[ZakB]

It makes sense, free engines for STR, which means they have more money to develop the car and this data can be shared with Red Bull.

The engines would not be free if STR sign with Honda. That is a perk McLaren gets as part of the works partnership only. Honda won't hand out free engines to everyone.

Sauber would have gotten the engines for free. McLaren is their works team and they won't buy STR. Honda only wants another team so they can improve their engine at a faster rate.

[GhostF1]

It makes sense, free engines for STR, which means they have more money to develop the car and this data can be shared with Red Bull.

The engines would not be free if STR sign with Honda. That is a perk McLaren gets as part of the works partnership only. Honda won't hand out free engines to everyone.

Sauber would have gotten the engines for free. McLaren is their works team and they won't buy STR. Honda only wants another team so they can improve their engine at a faster rate.

That doesn't translate into free engines... Yes they want to develop faster with more engines on the field but it's almost ridiculous to assume each team they sign after McLaren would also reap the benefits of free engines...

[ZakB]

The engines would not be free if STR sign with Honda. That is a perk McLaren gets as part of the works partnership only. Honda won't hand out free engines to everyone.

Sauber would have gotten the engines for free. McLaren is their works team and they won't buy STR. Honda only wants another team so they can improve their engine at a faster rate.

That doesn't translate into free engines... Yes they want to develop faster with more engines on the field but it's almost ridiculous to assume each team they sign after McLaren would also reap the benefits of free engines...

Ridiculous? There isn't a single team on the grid that would pay to switch to Honda engines at the moment.

[Craigy]

Ridiculous? There isn't a single team on the grid that would pay to switch to Honda engines at the moment.

That depends on cost, surely?
If Honda charges half what Ferrari does, then it forms part of the decision process.

[harjan]

Buying STR (in due time) is a very logic approach;

1. The investment they've made until now in F1 would become worthless if they don't have either Red Bull or McLaren as a primary customer, and/or start their own works team. Those are the only teams that can develop a championship winning chassis besides Ferrari and Mercedes.

2.By buying STR they have their own future in their hands and their exposure in due time will be much stronger. Being an engine supplier isn't as marketable now as it was 10-15 yrs ago. Just ask Renault. You want a full works team to control your down destiny and reap the rewards from the commercial rights.

3.They would get rid of the external pressure (like now with McLaren), which I think could serve their working culture better. I get the feeling that they were pressured into commitments and decisions by Dennis amongst others which in hindsight hindered the project.

So if they start off with STR now, then in due course they can either decide to go with Red Bull and/or buy STR and make it the factory team.

Honda are in this for the long haul, even if they can't get this PU concept working- they'll reap the benefits with an own team from 2021/2022 onwards with the new engine format.

[restless]

makes no sense to invest more than 300mln$ in McLaren and THEN look for own team

[ZakB]

makes no sense to invest more than 300mln$ in McLaren and THEN look for own team

Honda doesn't want their own team, it's the most unlogical think I've heard in a long time. It will take even more years to rebuild a midfield squad with limited resources to a Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull and McLaren competitor. McLaren Honda are finally on the right path, the concept of the engine is the right one and it will only get better from now on. Ferrari and Mercedes aren't willing to supply McLaren with engines, so their only option is Renault, which means they have to throw away 100 million in exchange for a couple of tenths. It's not going to happen and Honda will be confirmed in september.

[MrPotatoHead]

Ridiculous? There isn't a single team on the grid that would pay to switch to Honda engines at the moment.

That depends on cost, surely?
If Honda charges half what Ferrari does, then it forms part of the decision process.

Come on now Craig, the armchair enthusiast think that all the F1 teams have unlimited budgets and don't realize the impact that free / half price engines could have to the budget

[GhostF1]

Sauber would have gotten the engines for free. McLaren is their works team and they won't buy STR. Honda only wants another team so they can improve their engine at a faster rate.

That doesn't translate into free engines... Yes they want to develop faster with more engines on the field but it's almost ridiculous to assume each team they sign after McLaren would also reap the benefits of free engines...

Ridiculous? There isn't a single team on the grid that would pay to switch to Honda engines at the moment.

So you truly believe Honda is an engine manufacturer that won't charge it's customers for their engines.. I'm sorry but no, that's insane. McLaren get them free plus cash injection due to Honda essentially being their main sponsor. It's a works deal mate, customers will not have remotely the same perks as McLaren. If they were free, there'd be considerably more interest regardless of their first half performance.
The argument that "they haven't been competitive" does not immediately translate into "oh they're free now" that is not business. That's like saying a McLaren road car customer should get his Honda's or Toyota's free... madness.

[ZakB]

That doesn't translate into free engines... Yes they want to develop faster with more engines on the field but it's almost ridiculous to assume each team they sign after McLaren would also reap the benefits of free engines...

Ridiculous? There isn't a single team on the grid that would pay to switch to Honda engines at the moment.

So you truly believe Honda is an engine manufacturer that won't charge it's customers for their engines.. I'm sorry but no, that's insane. McLaren get them free plus cash injection due to Honda essentially being their main sponsor. It's a works deal mate, customers will not have remotely the same perks as McLaren. If they were free, there'd be considerably more interest regardless of their first half performance.
The argument that "they haven't been competitive" does not immediately translate into "oh they're free now" that is not business. That's like saying a McLaren road car customer should get his Honda's or Toyota's free... madness.

Sauber would have gotten them for free. Free doesn't equal works status.