2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[zeph]

fact is, Mclaren belongs in the top row. It's Ferrari, Mclaren, Mercedes, RedBull where the game [should] be.

Fact is, Williams was once a top team. Sometimes things change. I'm not saying McLaren can't recover, but I would not assume that they can dig themselves out of this hole, based merely on past achievement.

[zeph]

I tend to agree with giving Stoff some time, but in contrast, Hamilton didnt need ANY time getting to speed with F1 and Alonso back in 2007.

Different time. Back then unlimited testing was still allowed, and IIRC, Hamilton had actually lodged 10000+ km in the car, way more than Alonso had.

You can't defend being talented or being talentless with mileage. it plays a part to a certain degree. By now, Stoffel should have shown better.

I'm not defending anything. Nor do I have an opinion on Vandoorne's talent, or your perceived lack thereof. I'm simply saying you can't compare Vandoorne's situation to Hamilton's ten years ago.

[Manoah2u]

Oh i do agree on that, personally i am not comparing Hamilton at all to Vandoorne or vise versa. But what i DO take into account is how Mclaren themselves, and many others were boasting about how much of a talent he is and that he supposedly is a upcoming WDC. Said recently even by Zak Brown, about 2 or 3 races ago tops.

[ZakB]

fact is, Mclaren belongs in the top row. It's Ferrari, Mclaren, Mercedes, RedBull where the game [should] be.

Fact is, Williams was once a top team. Sometimes things change. I'm not saying McLaren can't recover, but I would not assume that they can dig themselves out of this hole, based merely on past achievement.

I'm sorry, but Williams can't be compared to McLaren. Even at their winning days Williams was much smaller and had a much lower budget than McLaren. McLaren already has recovered in my opinion and now they just have to wait until Honda gets their --- together and it seems that they are on the right path.

On Vandoorne, I'm giving him a couple of races, but I expected more from him and McLaren did as well. This is McLaren, they can't have two drivers with a difference between 3 to 4 tenths every lap. I'm just missing something from him, he's just too Belgian for me. Hulkenberg is a missed opportunity, but if they are smart they sign Sainz for 2018.

[zeph]

I'm sorry, but Williams can't be compared to McLaren. Even at their winning days Williams was much smaller and had a much lower budget than McLaren.

That's not how I remember it. Do you have anything that supports that claim?

[kaepernickus]

You can't defend being talented or being talentless with mileage. it plays a part to a certain degree. By now, Stoffel should have shown better.

Not that i wanna glorify Verstappen, but that boy was immediately on it. And exactly that was what everybody was shouting from the rooftops about Vandoorne, and that is exactly what nobody has seen from him in any way whatsoever.

One can never directly compare the first year of two pilots and then tell the story of their careers.
Some (veeery few) guys like Hamilton are there from race/year one, but others take a little time.

Alonso e.g. had a relatively good but not spectacular first year at Minardi (team mates the mighty Tarso Marques and Alex Yoong) followed by a year as test driver for Renault.

As much as I respect Verstappen's talent, his rookie season was with a fellow rookie in the solid but not exactly super high pressure environment of STR with Marko shielding his precious from any eventual criticism.
Yes he had great showings in 2015, but would he have been up to the task of beating or at least equal a team mate like Alonso or Hamilton back then?

Vandoorne is not a Hamilton-esque day one superstar, but who is?

Hulkenberg is a missed opportunity, but if they are smart they sign Sainz for 2018.

I don't get your obsession with Hulkenberg. He's been beaten by Perez in the last 2 out of 3 season and now has an easy life with Palmer as team mate.

He's good yes, but he has never proven that he is the same caliber as Alonso (and that's what you want considering your criticism of Vandoorne).

Sainz is good, but same question "is he 'Alonso good'.


Overall:
Is Vandoorne as good as Alonso NOW?
No, definitely not.
Can he match Alonso in 2018?
Maybe, if he continues to improve like he has done during the first half of the season, he's got a chance.
Is anyone (Sainz, Hulkenberg, ...) able to theoretically match Alonso in a 2018 McLaren?
I'd say that's as unclear as the question above. If they oust Vandoorne, get e.g. (then in his 4th season) Sainz in and he's also ~0.35s slower compared to Alonso they will have spent a lot (RB wants good money for Sainz) and gained nothing.

[The_table]

Having your first full F1 season in a car that is full of weird problems doesn't help VAN's situation much,it is really difficult for many drivers to drive around those problems and we know that Alonso is the master at that stuff.

Look at Raikkonen when the car is not to his liking...
Look at Massa when the Ferrari's were quite unstable under braking, he was nowhere.
Even Vettel was outdriven by Ricciardo when the car was not suiting him anymore.
(You guys can probably come up with way more examples than me...)

HAM had his first season in a rocketship with way more miles under his belt in the car.

What rookies have done well in a bad(or weird) car next to a world champion? (Genuine question, i haven't a clue...)

[diffuser]

And that is why McLaren needs a sister team.

Remember all that talk about Mag being the 2nd comming? He still not much...

[Vasconia]

Decent result, was quite happy for them after the race. Alonso seemed very happy too. Hoping in the holiday Honda can unlock more power in time for Spa. I'm sure I heard Alonso say that Spa might not be as bad for them as the interviewer made out.

Alonso showed in the last stint what this car could do with a good PU. Sadly Spa and Monza will show again the cruel reality, unless Honda comes finally with a competent PU.

[GoranF1]

https://twitter.com/F1sMyDrug/status/892378151082438656

[Vasconia]

https://twitter.com/F1sMyDrug/status/892378151082438656

I hope its not true, this would be a truly stupid move.

[mclaren111]

Agree. Renault not that much better and still not as reliable as it should be !!

3 years of suffering for nothing then.

[the EDGE]

https://twitter.com/F1sMyDrug/status/892378151082438656

I hope its not true, this would be a truly stupid move.

I totally agree, if Redbull can't win with a Renault engine what chance have McLaren got

[Vasconia]

https://twitter.com/F1sMyDrug/status/892378151082438656

I hope its not true, this would be a truly stupid move.

I totally agree, if Redbull can't win with a Renault engine what chance have McLaren got

Plus at least McLaren has a partner agreement with Honda. Renault has its own team and then Red Bull as a priority customer. What the hell is supposed to do McLaren with Renault?

[GoranF1]

I agree whit all of you...but it looks like Alonso is at war whit Honda.