Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[ZakB]

Like the article said, I cannot see Renault wanting to sell engines to more than one formidable team. They already have their hands full trying to compete at Red Bull's level.

Let's assume for a moment that the power numbers in the article are accurate and let's also assume "spec. 4" has the potential to deliver +50kW, as has been suggested. What would be the advantage to McLaren switching at that point? If they move up the grid either way, sponsorship deals become easier either way, and they'd still be a works team if they stay with Honda; it suddenly seems silly to change.
__________

Any word what spec. they're running in testing? I know many of us are hoping they finally get spec. 4 out on track and turn its promise into reality.

Spec 4 and 50kW, I think some people are dreaming too much here. As you can read, they are just at 2016 levels, while their target was Mercedes 2016 at the start of the season. After everything what Wazari said in here about the budget and facilities, I wouldn't get my hopes up. The problem is that the competition keeps developing their engines as well and next year the engines need to last even further.

Look at it with another view.

Honda is done with Loud-mouth disrespectful McLaren.

Honda gives them free PU and 100 million a year.Would McLaren be that bad mouth to a title sponsor?

Honda Red Bull is looking better every day.World Champs in 2019?

Bad mouthing? Do you actually know how much money they have lost because of Honda? They don't give McLaren money to shut their mouths, they give them money to perform. The shareholders are done with Honda, because there haven't been any signs that they can compete with Renault, Mercedes of Ferrari.

[godlameroso]

Like the article said, I cannot see Renault wanting to sell engines to more than one formidable team. They already have their hands full trying to compete at Red Bull's level.

Let's assume for a moment that the power numbers in the article are accurate and let's also assume "spec. 4" has the potential to deliver +50kW, as has been suggested. What would be the advantage to McLaren switching at that point? If they move up the grid either way, sponsorship deals become easier either way, and they'd still be a works team if they stay with Honda; it suddenly seems silly to change.
__________

Any word what spec. they're running in testing? I know many of us are hoping they finally get spec. 4 out on track and turn its promise into reality.

Spec 4 and 50kW, I think some people are dreaming too much here. As you can read, they are just at 2016 levels, while their target was Mercedes 2016 at the start of the season. After everything what Wazari said in here about the budget and facilities, I wouldn't get my hopes up. The problem is that the competition keeps developing their engines as well and next year the engines need to last even further.

Look at it with another view.

Honda is done with Loud-mouth disrespectful McLaren.

Honda gives them free PU and 100 million a year.Would McLaren be that bad mouth to a title sponsor?

Honda Red Bull is looking better every day.World Champs in 2019?

Bad mouthing? Are you on drugs or something? Do you actually know how much money they have lost because of Honda? They don't give McLaren money to shut their mouths, they give them money to perform. The shareholders are done with Honda, because there haven't been any signs that they can compete with Renault, Mercedes of Ferrari.

It's not 2016 levels, but rather the gap in power is the same as it was in 2016, the 2017 Mercedes is quite a bit more powerful than the 2016 PU, so the 2017 Honda PU is probably at the level of last year's Renault at the very least.

[shingles]

Like the article said, I cannot see Renault wanting to sell engines to more than one formidable team. They already have their hands full trying to compete at Red Bull's level.

Let's assume for a moment that the power numbers in the article are accurate and let's also assume "spec. 4" has the potential to deliver +50kW, as has been suggested. What would be the advantage to McLaren switching at that point? If they move up the grid either way, sponsorship deals become easier either way, and they'd still be a works team if they stay with Honda; it suddenly seems silly to change.
__________

Any word what spec. they're running in testing? I know many of us are hoping they finally get spec. 4 out on track and turn its promise into reality.

Spec 4 and 50kW, I think some people are dreaming too much here. As you can read, they are just at 2016 levels, while their target was Mercedes 2016 at the start of the season. After everything what Wazari said in here about the budget and facilities, I wouldn't get my hopes up. The problem is that the competition keeps developing their engines as well and next year the engines need to last even further.

Look at it with another view.

Honda is done with Loud-mouth disrespectful McLaren.

Honda gives them free PU and 100 million a year.Would McLaren be that bad mouth to a title sponsor?

Honda Red Bull is looking better every day.World Champs in 2019?

Bad mouthing? Do you actually know how much money they have lost because of Honda? They don't give McLaren money to shut their mouths, they give them money to perform. The shareholders are done with Honda, because there haven't been any signs that they can compete with Renault, Mercedes of Ferrari.

Sorry, remind me why you are in this Honda engine thread? Every post of your has no technical contribution, other than to bash Honda.

There haven't been any signs... are you actually watching the races?

[PhillipM]

Where has the 50kw figure come from?
That's far more than I heard (~22kw)

[ZakB]

Like the article said, I cannot see Renault wanting to sell engines to more than one formidable team. They already have their hands full trying to compete at Red Bull's level.

Let's assume for a moment that the power numbers in the article are accurate and let's also assume "spec. 4" has the potential to deliver +50kW, as has been suggested. What would be the advantage to McLaren switching at that point? If they move up the grid either way, sponsorship deals become easier either way, and they'd still be a works team if they stay with Honda; it suddenly seems silly to change.
__________

Any word what spec. they're running in testing? I know many of us are hoping they finally get spec. 4 out on track and turn its promise into reality.

Spec 4 and 50kW, I think some people are dreaming too much here. As you can read, they are just at 2016 levels, while their target was Mercedes 2016 at the start of the season. After everything what Wazari said in here about the budget and facilities, I wouldn't get my hopes up. The problem is that the competition keeps developing their engines as well and next year the engines need to last even further.

Look at it with another view.

Honda is done with Loud-mouth disrespectful McLaren.

Honda gives them free PU and 100 million a year.Would McLaren be that bad mouth to a title sponsor?

Honda Red Bull is looking better every day.World Champs in 2019?

Bad mouthing? Do you actually know how much money they have lost because of Honda? They don't give McLaren money to shut their mouths, they give them money to perform. The shareholders are done with Honda, because there haven't been any signs that they can compete with Renault, Mercedes of Ferrari.

Sorry, remind me why you are in this Honda engine thread? Every post of your has no technical contribution, other than to bash Honda.

There haven't been any signs... are you actually watching the races?

Have you watched the last three seasons? I'm not a Honda basher, but I defended them long enough.

Where has the 50kw figure come from?
That's far more than I heard (~22kw)

[PlatinumZealot]

Like the article said, I cannot see Renault wanting to sell engines to more than one formidable team. They already have their hands full trying to compete at Red Bull's level.

Let's assume for a moment that the power numbers in the article are accurate and let's also assume "spec. 4" has the potential to deliver +50kW, as has been suggested. What would be the advantage to McLaren switching at that point? If they move up the grid either way, sponsorship deals become easier either way, and they'd still be a works team if they stay with Honda; it suddenly seems silly to change.
__________

Any word what spec. they're running in testing? I know many of us are hoping they finally get spec. 4 out on track and turn its promise into reality.

Spec 4 and 50kW, I think some people are dreaming too much here. As you can read, they are just at 2016 levels, while their target was Mercedes 2016 at the start of the season. After everything what Wazari said in here about the budget and facilities, I wouldn't get my hopes up. The problem is that the competition keeps developing their engines as well and next year the engines need to last even further.

Look at it with another view.

Honda is done with Loud-mouth disrespectful McLaren.

Honda gives them free PU and 100 million a year.Would McLaren be that bad mouth to a title sponsor?

Honda Red Bull is looking better every day.World Champs in 2019?

Bad mouthing? Do you actually know how much money they have lost because of Honda? They don't give McLaren money to shut their mouths, they give them money to perform. The shareholders are done with Honda, because there haven't been any signs that they can compete with Renault, Mercedes of Ferrari.

Zack black, (for surely it cannot be brown) the article said 2016 levels of performance... Not 2016 horsepower! McLaren would be waaay behind if they only had 2016 levels of horsepower. Put it this way. The power level is now what it should have been for winter testing.

[MrPotatoHead]

Things are starting to look up for Honda.
And they still have not introduced the "ignition concept"
Once they so they will be even closer to everyone else.

I find it very strange that some (many) have zero faith in Honda being in a better position next year than they are this year. This is silly. The Mercedes does not run on unicorn dust. It's 100% possible and likely that the others will all catch up (in time) and match them in performance. Diminishing returns will always set in.

[gofast182]

Things are starting to look up for Honda.
And they still have not introduced the "ignition concept"
Once they so they will be even closer to everyone else.

I find it very strange that some (many) have zero faith in Honda being in a better position next year than they are this year. This is silly. The Mercedes does not run on unicorn dust. It's 100% possible and likely that the others will all catch up (in time) and match them in performance. Diminishing returns will always set in.

Well said. All one has to do is look at performance and reliability in Melbourne versus now to know that faith in Honda is well-founded. Sure there's work to be done but Honda has more scope to improve, or at least do so in larger increments, than Merc. or Ferrari who are operating at "state-of-the-art".

[ZakB]

It's funny how one race, in Hungary for crying out loud, makes Honda the ultimate competitor. Let's wait and see how the next two races are going to turn out.

2016 levels of performance... Not 2016 horsepower!

Honda started the season with worse performance than they finished last year, despite a major engine redesign, and reliability has been shocking.

Only with the latest 'Phase Three' development, introduced competitively at the Austrian Grand Prix in early July, has the Honda matched the performance level it had at the end of 2016.

Don't forget that the current engine is lighter and they got down the COG, so equal power will result in better laptime.

[j.yank]

Comparison between the poles and best McL-H qualification times in 2016 and 2017 (with correction for circuit's lengths). It seems that they develop the engine in completely opposite directions this and last year: http://imgur.com/Wxj966B

Similar comparison between the winner's average lap times and best McL-H average lap times. 2016 seems rather flat, 2017 is much more dynamic: http://imgur.com/C2aCFXx

In both cases it seems that now McL-H have leveled their performance at this time last year. IMO the Renault speculation is just media crap.

[Icecreamer]

It's funny how one race, in Hungary for crying out loud, makes Honda the ultimate competitor. Let's wait and see how the next two races are going to turn out.

2016 levels of performance... Not 2016 horsepower!

Honda started the season with worse performance than they finished last year, despite a major engine redesign, and reliability has been shocking.

Only with the latest 'Phase Three' development, introduced competitively at the Austrian Grand Prix in early July, has the Honda matched the performance level it had at the end of 2016.

IOW Honda even with Phase 3 has less power than Sauber's Ferrari PU?

[Sayeman]

It's funny how one race, in Hungary for crying out loud, makes Honda the ultimate competitor. Let's wait and see how the next two races are going to turn out.

2016 levels of performance... Not 2016 horsepower!

Honda started the season with worse performance than they finished last year, despite a major engine redesign, and reliability has been shocking.

Only with the latest 'Phase Three' development, introduced competitively at the Austrian Grand Prix in early July, has the Honda matched the performance level it had at the end of 2016.

Don't forget that the current engine is lighter and they got down the COG, so equal power will result in better laptime.

That's bull**it....The spec 3 engine is more powerful than the 2016 PU, Hasegawa has stated it multiple times. Since drag is higher this year the top speed chart may lie. Now that Sauber is running the 2016 Ferrari PU at full performance mode after the cooling update from Ferrari, they are still behind Honda in the top speed chart so i don't what you are talking about. And I am 100% sure the 2016 Ferrari PU was far more powerful than the Honda 2016 engine

[ZakB]

It's funny how one race, in Hungary for crying out loud, makes Honda the ultimate competitor. Let's wait and see how the next two races are going to turn out.

2016 levels of performance... Not 2016 horsepower!

Honda started the season with worse performance than they finished last year, despite a major engine redesign, and reliability has been shocking.

Only with the latest 'Phase Three' development, introduced competitively at the Austrian Grand Prix in early July, has the Honda matched the performance level it had at the end of 2016.

Don't forget that the current engine is lighter and they got down the COG, so equal power will result in better laptime.

That's bull**it....The spec 3 engine is more powerful than the 2016 PU, Hasegawa has stated it multiple times. Since drag is higher this year the top speed chart may lie. Now that Sauber is running the 2016 Ferrari PU at full performance mode after the cooling update from Ferrari, they are still behind Honda in the top speed chart so i don't what you are talking about. And I am 100% sure the 2016 Ferrari PU was far more powerful than the Honda 2016 engine

Those claims are made by Andrew Benson (BBC), not by me. McLaren considering to switch to Renault and say goodbye to 100 million yearly says it all really, they know exactly what Honda promises and delivers.

[swifteddie1]

Look at it with another view.

Honda is done with Loud-mouth disrespectful McLaren.
(to the Japanese...disrespect is the number 1 no-no)

Honda gives them free PU and 100 million a year.Would McLaren be that bad mouth to a title sponsor?
And 30 million a year to Alonso.

Honda Red Bull is looking better every day.World Champs in 2019?

A title sponsor isnt providing them with engines that are that far off the pace. McLaren has been patient with Honda for 3 years and they are yet to come good. Do you really believe Red Bull would have been any less vocal if they were in McLarens shoes for the last 3 years?

[Sayeman]

It's funny how one race, in Hungary for crying out loud, makes Honda the ultimate competitor. Let's wait and see how the next two races are going to turn out.



Honda started the season with worse performance than they finished last year, despite a major engine redesign, and reliability has been shocking.

Only with the latest 'Phase Three' development, introduced competitively at the Austrian Grand Prix in early July, has the Honda matched the performance level it had at the end of 2016.

Don't forget that the current engine is lighter and they got down the COG, so equal power will result in better laptime.

That's bull**it....The spec 3 engine is more powerful than the 2016 PU, Hasegawa has stated it multiple times. Since drag is higher this year the top speed chart may lie. Now that Sauber is running the 2016 Ferrari PU at full performance mode after the cooling update from Ferrari, they are still behind Honda in the top speed chart so i don't what you are talking about. And I am 100% sure the 2016 Ferrari PU was far more powerful than the Honda 2016 engine

Those claims are made by Andrew Benson (BBC), not by me. McLaren considering to switch to Renault and say goodbye to 100 million yearly says it all really, they know exactly what Honda promises and delivers.

I don't know why the british media acts like Mclaren can switch to whatever PU manufacturer they want to, like "pick and choose"! First of all why would Honda roll over when they have a watertight contract and have invested tons of money already?

And like Toto says other manufacturers are more eager to see Honda stay in F1 than to participate in British media's fantasy league. Honda has said multiple times that they won't be moving over for another manufacturer, i will take their words over biased british emdia any day of the week