2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[Andres125sx]

It is absolutely fair to judge Vandoorne ...

I think you´re ignoring or understimating an important factor wich is common to any top sport when it comes to a rookie joining that top league. I´d call it "realizing you´re not the best"

If you like football (soccer) it´s similar to what James Rodrigez suffered when signed in with Real Madrid. He was used to being the top star of any team he played before, with the whole team working for him because he´s always been the best of the squad. But when he joined Real Madrid then suddenly he´s not the best, he´s only one more member of the squad with several players on a much more important role and then he´s the one who must work for the team, intead of the team working for him. That´s a dramatic change for someone whose ego was as high as it could be before, and I´m sure that takes some time apart from a strong personality.

For Vandoorne it´s the same, last 5 seasons he´s won several races each season on FR 2.0, FR 3.5, GP2 and SuperFormula, winning the WDC in FR2.0 and GP2. He´s been a winner last 5 season, and now he has to cope with a car wich can only finish top10 from time to time, and specially with a team mate who is easily faster and more consistent, so much more from time to time the GP2 champion look like an average driver

He need to realize he´s not the best, assume he has to do a lot of work for the team, and accomodate to this new role, and all that while getting used to F1. I think the beginning was specially difficult for him, but he´s getting used and performing much better in past GPs. It´s still his rookie season after all and he´s compared with probably the toughest team mate of the whole F1 grid, even for veterans and WDC like Kimi, Massa, Button...

IMHO Vandoorne position right now is the most difficult of any F1 driver by far

[GoranF1]

Don't get why Vandoorne is getting so much stick. Alonso out-qualified and out-raced both Massa and Raikkonen by a couple of tenths per lap, both of them being wdc or wdc contenders with lots of experience. Yet some of you expect more from a rookie in his first year? There are only a couple of drivers on the grid who'd be able to do more, none of them being a rookie

There are NO drivers that can do that whitout big sabotaging of Alonso by Ron Dennis.

[ClarkBT11]

It is absolutely fair to judge Vandoorne
Especially in a mediocre car you have the easiest opportunity to show what you're worth since there is literally zero pressure then really, what to expect?

In a car that in qualifying the engine so unreliable could be the difference in qualifying and race, the car isn't mediocre it's a dog with incontinence issues (leaking on track) that needs putting down. If your engine isn't working 100% think what that could do with his tyre management especially compared to your team Mate that has vast years of experience with Pirreli rubber. I can't see why he wouldn't deserve a chance in a car with a competitive engine and equal resources. A better rub of the green always helps, I would give him another year personally.

[ClarkBT11]

Don't get why Vandoorne is getting so much stick. Alonso out-qualified and out-raced both Massa and Raikkonen by a couple of tenths per lap, both of them being wdc or wdc contenders with lots of experience. Yet some of you expect more from a rookie in his first year? There are only a couple of drivers on the grid who'd be able to do more, none of them being a rookie

There are NO drivers that can do that whitout big sabotaging of Alonso by Ron Dennis.

Haha, this subject comes up every summer break, when there's nothing to talk about.

[Manoah2u]

It is absolutely fair to judge Vandoorne
Especially in a mediocre car you have the easiest opportunity to show what you're worth since there is literally zero pressure then really, what to expect?

I can't see why he wouldn't deserve a chance in a car with a competitive engine and equal resources.

i never said he neccesarily doesn't deserve one, but at the same time i dont see how he does deserve it.

The point is, i think it's completely nonsense to think you can't judge a driver because he hasn't got a Mercedes AMG F1 car under his bottocks.

Above all, VanDoorne has been 'hailed' before his entrance in F1 that he was the next 'Hamilton' of such. Again, Brown himself - offcourse he would - praises his own development driver and claims they see a WDC in him.

Quite frankly, i have seen nothing that indicates any of such.

Drivers like Ocon, Sainz, Verstappen upon their entry in F1 did show that capability, no matter what material given.
Drivers like Alonso, Vettel, and offcourse Hamilton was given a good bed immediately, but still, they showed their capacity from the go. Kubica, etc. You can go on and on.

Thing is, with all the hype about Vandoorne before, i can't distinguish his driving (not the car, but him as a driver and his results in practice, qually, and race) being any better or worse from drivers like Magnussen, Palmer, Ericsson, Kvyat, Nasr, Bourdais, etc.

He's miles and miles behind Alonso, who is driving the same car with the same engine.

Yet, for comparison, we get a driver test with Lando Norris and in that instance, as brief as it may, we actually got to see something spectacular. exactly that is what should be expected from the 'halo' around VanDoorne.

[ClarkBT11]

All the drivers you have stated Ocon, Verstappen and Sainz have had a car capable of top ten finishes regularly or even podiums if a good strategy has played out well. Vandoorne hasn't even got that yet. No he hasn't shown any flare yet but considering he's their youth programme driver and probably never had to nurse car or tyres before, should get more time. You could only compare Norris with Vandoorne if their lap times were set on the same day same level of updates, same track temperature..

[Joseki]

Ocon Verstappen and Sainz have far better machinery, Vandoorne maybe had 2 weekends without reliability problems.

[diffuser]

The irony is , I think with the exception of 1 or 2 we're all saying the same thing ...

This year he's been _______, Lets give him another year to see how he progresses.

[ClarkBT11]

Yes your right, let's move on the discussion is only continuing because of select serial nitpickers.

[godlameroso]

Alonso is like a human playing against the AI in the F1 games.

[mwillems]

Vandoorne also had little or no testing at the start of the season. So coming into the season he would not have understood the car. Then, for several races, they were unable to drive the car in the fashion he would have liked. Even when they were able to begin to push, the driveability was poor. It is only someway into the season that he was able to learn the car once it became driveable and didn't shake itself apart.

I'm not massively impressed with him, but nor do I think he has really had the opportunity to impress.
Now the car is in a reasonable place, he seems to be making progress. Let's see what he can do in the second half of the season, because I don't think you can really give any kind of accurate assessment so far.

[Andres125sx]

Drivers like Alonso, Vettel, and offcourse Hamilton was given a good bed immediately

Sorry but, are you really comparing Vettel and Lewis debut with WINNING CARS (Lewis a title capable car, and Vettel with the only STR wich has been faster to RBR ever and the only wich won a race), with Alonso´s debut with the Minardi, aka mobile chicane? Seriously?

Stofel first F1 car is slow, period, but it´s a rocket compared to Alonso´s first F1 car

[the EDGE]

It's fair to say stoffel hasn't shown the out-of-the box performance that we saw with Lewis and more recently 'that guy' Max, but if we're honest neither has any of the other drivers who have entered F1 in the past decade

Fernandos on fire at the moment (he even says so himself quite a lot), his experience HAS to account for at least 4, if not 5 tenths in quali I would have thought? If not, then why is he rated as equal best driver on the grid?

Personally I think stoffels done great, only half a season in & already starting to show progress against one of the best out there

He has kept his head down and the car out of the way of others (plenty of Toro Rosso & FI Drivers who could learn a lot from him there) and the wall (lance) which is exactly what you need to do to become a WDC in the future

But make no mistake, he will need to do better in the future to keep his seat, but right now I'd say his right on target for a newbie

[Manoah2u]

Drivers like Alonso, Vettel, and offcourse Hamilton was given a good bed immediately

Sorry but, are you really comparing Vettel and Lewis debut with WINNING CARS (Lewis a title capable car, and Vettel with the only STR wich has been faster to RBR ever and the only wich won a race), with Alonso´s debut with the Minardi, aka mobile chicane? Seriously?

Stofel first F1 car is slow, period, but it´s a rocket compared to Alonso´s first F1 car

http://m1.paperblog.com/i/103/1037819/f ... jYJlS.jpeg

no bruh, i guess i had to put a point > . < between vettel and lewis and not an 'and'.
Alonso and Vettel didnt get a good bed immediately, but Hamilton did - apologies for not being clear enough in the sentance.

[dren]

Hamilton did get a good bed and tied Alonso on points that year. Vandoorne isn't anywhere near Alonso.