2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[Raleigh]

Alonso's talent is pulling good results out of bad cars.

Somewhat unique in this respect, Vettel for example could not cope with a "bad" Red Bull in 2014. Massa went from miserable performances at Ferrari in a tricky car to great form at Williams. Kimi went in the other direction, doing great at Lotus, nowhere at Ferrari because the car did not suit his driving style. Hamilton might be able to deal with a bad car but we don't know because he's never had one.

In a good car Alonso would not necessarily be faster than other top drivers, but it's a very harsh comparison for Vandoorne who has to drive a difficult and unreliable car against the master of driving difficult cars.

[adrianjordan]

Alonso's talent is pulling good results out of bad cars.

Somewhat unique in this respect, Vettel for example could not cope with a "bad" Red Bull in 2014. Massa went from miserable performances at Ferrari in a tricky car to great form at Williams. Kimi went in the other direction, doing great at Lotus, nowhere at Ferrari because the car did not suit his driving style. Hamilton might be able to deal with a bad car but we don't know because he's never had one.

In a good car Alonso would not necessarily be faster than other top drivers, but it's a very harsh comparison for Vandoorne who has to drive a difficult and unreliable car against the master of driving difficult cars.

First half of 2009, that Mclaren was poor (who else remembers them even using an 08 rear wing during testing??), but they developed it into a race winner throughout the season.

[Andres125sx]

Drivers like Alonso, Vettel, and offcourse Hamilton was given a good bed immediately

Sorry but, are you really comparing Vettel and Lewis debut with WINNING CARS (Lewis a title capable car, and Vettel with the only STR wich has been faster to RBR ever and the only wich won a race), with Alonso´s debut with the Minardi, aka mobile chicane? Seriously?

Stofel first F1 car is slow, period, but it´s a rocket compared to Alonso´s first F1 car

http://m1.paperblog.com/i/103/1037819/f ... jYJlS.jpeg

no bruh, i guess i had to put a point > . < between vettel and lewis and not an 'and'.
Alonso and Vettel didnt get a good bed immediately, but Hamilton did - apologies for not being clear enough in the sentance.

Don´t worry, but I´d say Vettel first car (let´s assume it´s STR as he only raced with BMW for one single GP) was a VERY good car, best STR ever, the only STR to make a pole and a victory to date, was a very good car and I would never compare that with Alonso´s Minardi.

Lewis first car was a title winning car, Vettel first car was a very good midfielder wich was able to fight for victories some GP, while Alonso´s fist car was the slowest car on the grid... by far. Can ´t be compared :p

[dren]

Alonso's talent is pulling good results out of bad cars.

Somewhat unique in this respect, Vettel for example could not cope with a "bad" Red Bull in 2014. Massa went from miserable performances at Ferrari in a tricky car to great form at Williams. Kimi went in the other direction, doing great at Lotus, nowhere at Ferrari because the car did not suit his driving style. Hamilton might be able to deal with a bad car but we don't know because he's never had one.

In a good car Alonso would not necessarily be faster than other top drivers, but it's a very harsh comparison for Vandoorne who has to drive a difficult and unreliable car against the master of driving difficult cars.

I wouldn't consider the Mclaren a bad car this year. The PU hasn't performed, though. Both drivers seem to think the chassis is pretty good and the car is nice to drive.

[flmkane]

Hamilton might be able to deal with a bad car but we don't know because he's never had one.

I'm an EX Ham fan, but this is nonsense.

In 2009 Hamilton had a POS car with terrible balance issues. And in 2011 and 2012 the cars were occasionally set up wrong or didn't suit the circuits. Yet he pulled results from them.

And in 2013, the Mercedes was fast but ate tyres like soft boiled eggs. But he won a race.

People should stop acting like he's only driven for Mercedes and only since 2014

[Mansell89]

I have to agree, Hamilton might be a diva and annoy the daylights out of me at times but he's shown raw pace every single year.

Think about the Poles he has won against the likes of Vettel in that unbelievable period of Adrian Newey-inspired Red Bulls.

I rate Hamilton a fair bit above Vettel in a pure racing driver sense, but Vettel knows the economics and ruthlessness to do enough to win races and Championships. Vettel has the racing drivers head. Hamilton has the heart.

Alonso is a little bit of both! What we would give to have a 4 team fight for races and championships. One day I hope.

[mclaren111]

I would love to see Mclaren dominate a year or two again

[Raleigh]

Hamilton might be able to deal with a bad car but we don't know because he's never had one.

I'm an EX Ham fan, but this is nonsense.

In 2009 Hamilton had a POS car with terrible balance issues. And in 2011 and 2012 the cars were occasionally set up wrong or didn't suit the circuits. Yet he pulled results from them.

And in 2013, the Mercedes was fast but ate tyres like soft boiled eggs. But he won a race.

People should stop acting like he's only driven for Mercedes and only since 2014

Wasn't really meant as an attack on Lewis, he's got massive pace and shines in the rain, which to me is always a sign of true talent. Still, the point stands, he's had good cars for almost the entirety of his F1 career.

2007 Hamiliton had the best or joint best car, 2008 was the same.

2009 started out badly, by the end of the season when he was getting good results the handling issues had been resolved.

2010-2012 the Mclaren wasn't the raw fastest but the cars were pretty good to drive as evinced by both Jenson and Lewis getting good results, when the cars weren't set up right both drivers had their off days.

2013 Mercedes was in every respect an excellent car apart from tire consumption, both Lewis and Nico won races and took poles.

The only point in Hamiliton's career where he could be said to have had a bad car (as opposed to merely not quite the fastest car) was the first half of 2009, and he didn't exactly perform miracles.

Alonso by contrast has since 2010 been dragging fast (or not so fast) but ill-handling cars to results they did not deserve while the same cars wreaked havoc on the performance of team-mates that had been fast in other cars and other teams.

I honestly don't know who would be quickest out of Alonso, Vettel and Hamiliton if you put them all in a car as good as the 2017 Mercedes, but if you put them all in the 2017 Mclaren Fernando would crush Seb and possibly Lewis as well.

[proteus]

Hamilton might be able to deal with a bad car but we don't know because he's never had one.

I'm an EX Ham fan, but this is nonsense.

In 2009 Hamilton had a POS car with terrible balance issues. And in 2011 and 2012 the cars were occasionally set up wrong or didn't suit the circuits. Yet he pulled results from them.

And in 2013, the Mercedes was fast but ate tyres like soft boiled eggs. But he won a race.

People should stop acting like he's only driven for Mercedes and only since 2014

Wasn't really meant as an attack on Lewis, he's got massive pace and shines in the rain, which to me is always a sign of true talent. Still, the point stands, he's had good cars for almost the entirety of his F1 career.

2007 Hamiliton had the best or joint best car, 2008 was the same.

2009 started out badly, by the end of the season when he was getting good results the handling issues had been resolved.

2010-2012 the Mclaren wasn't the raw fastest but the cars were pretty good to drive as evinced by both Jenson and Lewis getting good results, when the cars weren't set up right both drivers had their off days.

2013 Mercedes was in every respect an excellent car apart from tire consumption, both Lewis and Nico won races and took poles.

The only point in Hamiliton's career where he could be said to have had a bad car (as opposed to merely not quite the fastest car) was the first half of 2009, and he didn't exactly perform miracles.

Alonso by contrast has since 2010 been dragging fast (or not so fast) but ill-handling cars to results they did not deserve while the same cars wreaked havoc on the performance of team-mates that had been fast in other cars and other teams.

I honestly don't know who would be quickest out of Alonso, Vettel and Hamiliton if you put them all in a car as good as the 2017 Mercedes, but if you put them all in the 2017 Mclaren Fernando would crush Seb and possibly Lewis as well.

In times when Alonso was in Ferrari, the cars were tailored just for him and him only, the number 2 drivers took what they were given - this is Ferraris way for quite some time, and this way costed them contention for constructors championships in many occasions and thats a fact.

[Andres125sx]

In times when Alonso was in Ferrari, the cars were tailored just for him and him only, the number 2 drivers took what they were given - this is Ferraris way for quite some time, and this way costed them contention for constructors championships in many occasions and thats a fact.

The fact is that´s far from new at Ferrari, they always use the #1 and #2 drivers strategy. But I would even dare to say most top teams do the same, as it would be nosense to develop your car to accomodate your slowest driver

So assuming that´s a pretty common strategy in F1, the point here is when the team does not manage to build the #1 driver ideal car, none perform as well as Alonso. When the team manage to build the #1 driver ideal car many drivers can be the fastest, but IMHO it´s when the car is not that good or when it does not adapt to the driver when the best drivers show up

[Andres125sx]

Hamilton might be able to deal with a bad car but we don't know because he's never had one.

I'm an EX Ham fan, but this is nonsense.

In 2009 Hamilton had a POS car with terrible balance issues. And in 2011 and 2012 the cars were occasionally set up wrong or didn't suit the circuits. Yet he pulled results from them.

And in 2013, the Mercedes was fast but ate tyres like soft boiled eggs. But he won a race.

People should stop acting like he's only driven for Mercedes and only since 2014

I like Hamilton (as a driver) and I support him, but sincerely, those seasons you´re pointing as an example are in my eyes the proof of the contrary

In 2009 Kovalainen didn´t bother Lewis simply because after 2007 they decided to provide Lewis with #1, as 2008 showed with TOs at first third of the season to let Lewis pass Kova, something not even Ferrari has ever do, the red team always provide equal opportunities until some driver is discarded for the WDC. Mclaren didn´t wait in 2008 and 2009 and Lewis was #1 from first race

In 2011 Jenson beated Lewis by 43 points (270 vs 227), and in 2012 Lewis beated Jenson only by 2 points (190 vs 188).

So those few seasons Lewis car was not that good, his team mate beated him or almost. I wouldn´t say he´s similar to Kimi as he does not have such a narrow window, but his window is easily smaller when compared to Alonso, period. It´s a bit bigger than Vettel´s one tough. But if compared to Alonso, Lewis has a window while Alonso don´t have a window, he´s outdoors, his perfomance is always superb no matter how good or bad his car is.

With Minardi he lapped his team mate more than once. With a poor Renault (2008 and 09) he anihilated his team mates. And with Ferrari it doesn´t matter if it was good or bad, he always destroyed both Massa and Kimi

I know it´s not a fair comparison as drivers like Alonso are not normal, but if we´re talking about drivers with a narrow operating window and drivers with a wide operating window, sorry but none can be compared to Fernando Alonso. Heck even Senna struggled with poor cars making a lot more mistakes when compared to Alonso!!

[dren]

People severely underrated Button.

I think Vettel is a tad bit overrated. He's quick, but car dependent.

Hamilton has proven to be quick every year, in every car he has been in.

The best two drivers in F1 are Hamilton and Alonso. Then it's a small drop to Vettel and Ricciardo. Max is fast, but hasn't figured it all out yet. Just my opinions of course.

[santos]

People severely underrated Button.

I think Vettel is a tad bit overrated. He's quick, but car dependent.

Hamilton has proven to be quick every year, in every car he has been in.

The best two drivers in F1 are Hamilton and Alonso. Then it's a small drop to Vettel and Ricciardo. Max is fast, but hasn't figured it all out yet. Just my opinions of course.

Everyone have their own ranking, but Hamilton didn't had a great year in 2013. He didn't had the best car also.

[Alonso Fan]

People severely underrated Button.

I think Vettel is a tad bit overrated. He's quick, but car dependent.

Hamilton has proven to be quick every year, in every car he has been in.

The best two drivers in F1 are Hamilton and Alonso. Then it's a small drop to Vettel and Ricciardo. Max is fast, but hasn't figured it all out yet. Just my opinions of course.

I agree with this assessment

[bauc]

Any chance Mclaren can overtake Renault and end up P8 in constructors this year? I think yes, they are only 15 points ahead and with few good finishes here and there and with a bit of luck and hopefully some good updates (spec4) I thnik Mclaren can do it. I'm not so sure if they can catch Hass for P7, as they will be fast in Monza & SPA due to the Ferrari engine in the back.