Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[etusch]

So they expect fernando can finish in points at spa with hungary engine

Don´t think so, I´d say they´re not sure if Vandoorne will finish with the new PU

Or this

So they expect fernando can finish at spa with hungary engine

I've fixed this for you.

I talked about full story and Mudflap talked just half of it.
I think they expect these. FA can finish in points or near it. This is SDV's home race. He can finish with this update front of FA and this is good for Belgium media/F1 fans and maybe belgium companies.

[ZakB]

So Mark hughes says Mercedes is assisting Honda, Autosport says Ilmore is assisting Honda, seems like as soon as HOnda shows improvement every other company is adding their names to the rumor mill to steal some credit.

Honda is a wide range of input from outside parties, which Autosport also noted.

Although Honda has not made dramatic gains with its engine so far this season, behind the scenes there has been a lot of change.

It parted with ex-Ferrari man Gilles Simon on the eve of the season, and subsequently enlisted a wide range of input from outside parties - including Ilmor and Mercedes.

[ispano6]

Single cylinder development is the correct way to test combustion concepts - the real mistake was failing to predict behaviour in a multi cylinder configuration.

The physics are all well understood and I am struggling to understand where honda have gone wrong.

Saying that single cylinder work is a dead end is a bit like saying wind tunnel and CFD are useless. Sure some teams sometimes mess up their CFD models or use a rubbish wind tunnel (see caterham) and predicted improvents do not translate into on-track gains but the error is not in the method.

Perhaps it wasn't so much the physics of multi cylinder scaling but more so a change in the structural properties of the 2017 car from the 2016 specifications that had unforeseen side effects. The floors seem to be rather flimsy compared to past generation cars.

[Craigy]

Perhaps it wasn't so much the physics of multi cylinder scaling but more so a change in the structural properties of the 2017 car from the 2016 specifications that had unforeseen side effects. The floors seem to be rather flimsy compared to past generation cars.

In 2017, F1 floors aren't particularly structural - they are really aerodynamic bodywork.
The structure of the car is monocoque to engine, engine to gearbox and everything else bolts onto those, including the floor.

[dren]

Single cylinder development is the correct way to test combustion concepts - the real mistake was failing to predict behaviour in a multi cylinder configuration.

The physics are all well understood and I am struggling to understand where honda have gone wrong.

Saying that single cylinder work is a dead end is a bit like saying wind tunnel and CFD are useless. Sure some teams sometimes mess up their CFD models or use a rubbish wind tunnel (see caterham) and predicted improvents do not translate into on-track gains but the error is not in the method.

Perhaps it wasn't so much the physics of multi cylinder scaling but more so a change in the structural properties of the 2017 car from the 2016 specifications that had unforeseen side effects. The floors seem to be rather flimsy compared to past generation cars.

Hasegawa has stated in various interviews since the start of the season:

• Dyno results seen on single cylinder test engines didn't translate to the V6. We don't know why but speculated it was due to the exhaust and or intake coupling of all 6 cylinders.

• Vibrations were higher than expected/experienced on the dampened (by mass) test dyno. The interaction with the rest of the car amplified the issue.

• The MGUH troubled them for a long while. Other articles point to this being a vibration/balancing issue.

Wazari stated his team's design wasn't used at the start of the season; head weight being one of the reasons. He hinted it should be part of the new combustion updates. If I'm wrong with this one, please correct me.

[godlameroso]

Maybe it belongs in the team thread, it seems now both Alonso and Vandoorne are getting the updates, except Vandoorne is getting a small reliability tweak.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... pa-944158/

[maguetox]

Maybe it belongs in the team thread, it seems now both Alonso and Vandoorne are getting the updates, except Vandoorne is getting a small reliability tweak.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... pa-944158/

According with Albert Fabrega, Alonso will get an upgrade for Monza if dyno result are positive. So looks like Honda is working on different development stages and as soon as they are ready they will introduce them, they are not waiting the end of the "ICE" cycle to race them.

[ollandos]

in my eyes honda perhaps have for spa ..new compressor for both and probably fuel update ..and the new MGUH for stoffel ...with new maps, aero setup and better electrical energy managment and fuel consumption its realistic 0.3sec gain per lap from previous specs of the car ....last year with button it was 1.370sec from pole ...if can be 1-1.1sec thiw year ..maybe honda is closer than ever in this 3 years ....let's see

[godlameroso]

in my eyes honda perhaps have for spa ..new compressor for both and probably fuel update ..and the new MGUH for stoffel ...with new maps, aero setup and better electrical energy managment and fuel consumption its realistic 0.3sec gain per lap from previous specs of the car ....last year with button it was 1.370sec from pole ...if can be 1-1.1sec thiw year ..maybe honda is closer than ever in this 3 years ....let's see

Seeing as how critical the fuel injectors are, along with the intake plenum and exhaust are to overall efficiency, I wonder if the reason we always hear about mapping is due to these parts are being changed regularly? Newer more precise injectors with a better spray pattern, and all of the other things allowed by regulations with no penalty can make a big difference.

[Joseki]

So it's an incremental update for Spa, it was expected, I'm curious to see how big the update planned for Monza is going to be.

[GoranF1]

Maybe it belongs in the team thread, it seems now both Alonso and Vandoorne are getting the updates, except Vandoorne is getting a small reliability tweak.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... pa-944158/

How can they update whitout penalty?

[the EDGE]

Maybe it belongs in the team thread, it seems now both Alonso and Vandoorne are getting the updates, except Vandoorne is getting a small reliability tweak.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... pa-944158/

How can they update whitout penalty?

Reliability?

[Joseki]

Maybe it belongs in the team thread, it seems now both Alonso and Vandoorne are getting the updates, except Vandoorne is getting a small reliability tweak.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... pa-944158/

How can they update whitout penalty?

There are parts of the power unit not subjected to the 4 units per season limit.

[hazelnut120]

So Mark hughes says Mercedes is assisting Honda, Autosport says Ilmore is assisting Honda, seems like as soon as HOnda shows improvement every other company is adding their names to the rumor mill to steal some credit.

If anyone saw Mario Illien on channel 4 during the British GP weekend, they would know he said he was working with Honda and things are looking good. People need to stop whingeing about evil media writing stories to steal Honda's credit. They haven't done much to get any credit to begin with.

[godlameroso]

Maybe it belongs in the team thread, it seems now both Alonso and Vandoorne are getting the updates, except Vandoorne is getting a small reliability tweak.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... pa-944158/

How can they update whitout penalty?

Appendix 2 of the technical regulations, the table marked article 5.22, everything that's in yellow "EXC" can be freely changed without penalty, as you can see there's a lot of leeway.

You can change the wastegate, and blow off valves which let you control the MAP, and EBP, more precise control of electric super charging mode, and can help make recovery and deployment more efficient.

You can also change:
PU Engine air inlet system from plenum entry to cylinder head (e.g. plenum, trumpets, throttles)

as well as
PU exhaust system from the engine exhaust flange up to but not including the turbine or wastegate exit tail-pipe.

Pretty big change
PU mounted fuel system components: (e.g. High Pressure fuel hose, fuel rail, fuel injectors, accumulators)

Somewhat relevant
Main PU oil tank, catch tanks, and any breather system connected to them and associated filters, brackets, support, screws, nuts, dowels, washers, cables, tubes, hoses, oil or air seals

These seem important
MGU-K mechanical power transmission components and mounting accessories
MGU-H mechanical power transmission components and mounting accessories

And the list goes on, power unit ballast, pumps, hoses, heat exchangers accumulators, servos, hydraulic parts.