2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[diffuser]

McLaren like ALO have nowhere else to go. They're made for each other.

[diffuser]

This forum could do without Fernando not finishing the race. It just leads into a ton of Fred and Honda bashing, neither of which is very entertaining.

[Andres125sx]

I like Alonso, but he's still an employee. You must learn to respect your team.
In my country, if you speak ill of your boss ... then you will be fired.

In my country (wich is the same as Alonso) we fire those who can´t accomplish their own promises, in this case, Honda

Showing frustration when promises are broken is considered normal around here. Not there?

OT:
I also live in Spain, and you might get away with that attitude working at a bar or small family owned business. Theres a huge "seniority culture" here compared to corps I worked for over in the US; which have a high value for talent and accountability. So being up front about failure is not what I´ve usually experienced.

I work for a "big corp" here, and If you dare voice your frustrations as Alonso does, trust me, the least you´d get is a "yellow card" with good old HHRR department, and if done again, you´re out or can simply kiss your career progression good bye. The only way to get away with certain attitudes againt bosses here is by being heavily involved with an Union. (ELA, for example) And that certainly wont allow you to go and humiliate your bosses everytime you feel like it

So in case you do fail to meet deadlines or expectations, you will surely get fire, although there´s more tolerance due to good "pro labour laws", which would usually get you somewhat demoted or moved to another department, instead of being bluntly fired.

So getting a bit back to topic, Alonso is not doing himself any more favors by keeping the pressure on Honda with those radio messages and interviews. In fact, he might just be burning bridges with other manufacturers/teams on the grid. You could say that his awesome talent comes with great brand cost/liability if things are not working as he expects.

Are you really comparing any mortal job with Alonso´s job?

Obviously you missed it or I didn´t explain it properly (likely), but my reply was not about Spain, but about proffesional responsabilities.

People is saying Alonso is burning bridges.... What??? It´s HONDA who is burning bridges guys, right and left, front and back, you didn´t notice yet?

It´s Honda who did promise victories or at least podiums at this point of the project (second half of third season), but they´re light years back from accomplishing

AND people know it, and bash Honda day and night, but then, if we speak about Alonso.... then instantly Honda is a great company who is doing everything perfect and does not deserve any criticism from that egolatric driver called Alonso...


Seriously, you guys are funny. When I´m hired by a big company they may do some promises, but if they don´t accomplish I simply have to accept it, because there´s a million guys who can replace me so I´m forced to cope with it. But Alonso can´t be replaced by a million guys. Anyone comparing his job with Alonso´s job should learn some humility, that humility you say Alonso misses, you miss it too because even if you´re really good at your job, I´m sure you´re not as good as Alonso in his. Or you´re one of the three best in the world at least?

So basically Honda did some promises to be able to hire Alonso (who is making up Honda´s poor perfomance with awesome races like Hungary) but then they can´t accomplish, so Alonso received empty promises and obviously get angry after THREE season suffering an embarrasing PU wich can´t accomplish Honda promises.... but people still bash Alonso...



This is F1, anyone who can´t accomplish is severly criticized, anyone, drivers, mechanics, strategists, designers, manufacturers... Any reason Honda should be different. They´re getting the same Palmer is getting until Spa, the same Renault got from RBR, and the same any part involved in F1 who can´t accomplish get.



Alonso is demanding? Obviously, he´s one of the best and the best are demanding because they demand people around them to perform similar. Alonso and McLaren are accomplishing, but Honda isn´t.

And before you say something about McLaren not criticizing Honda... McLaren people do not risk his life while trying to not be fly passed by a Renault engine...

Fly passed by a Renault engine in second half of third season!!! But the bad boy here is Alonso... yeah guys, whatever you say

[HPD]

In my country (wich is the same as Alonso) we fire those who can´t accomplish their own promises, in this case, Honda

Showing frustration when promises are broken is considered normal around here. Not there?

I work for a "big corp" here, and If you dare voice your frustrations as Alonso does, trust me, the least you´d get is a "yellow card" with good old HHRR department, and if done again, you´re out or can simply kiss your career progression good bye. The only way to get away with certain attitudes againt bosses here is by being heavily involved with an Union. (ELA, for example) And that certainly wont allow you to go and humiliate your bosses everytime you feel like it

Are you really comparing any mortal job with Alonso´s job?

Obviously you missed it or I didn´t explain it properly (likely), but my reply was not about Spain, but about proffesional responsabilities.

People is saying Alonso is burning bridges.... What??? It´s HONDA who is burning bridges guys, right and left, front and back, you didn´t notice yet?

Fly passed by a Renault engine in second half of third season!!! But the bad boy here is Alonso... yeah guys, whatever you say

We do not say that Alonso is a bad driver, he is one of the best.
We do not say that Honda is the best engine, it is the worst engine these days.

Being the best driver does not give you the right to humiliate or criticize the people who work with you. If you think this is correct, then sorry ... you do not know what teamwork is.

[JonoNic]

Fuel to this Alonso fire https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alon ... ul-946433/

[HPD]

Fuel to this Alonso fire https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alon ... ul-946433/

Cyril Abiteboul: As such, he fears a repeat of the frustrations that the Spanish driver has expressed with Honda, something that would obviously generate negative publicity.

There is no more to say. You reap what you sow.

[Thunder]

There is no more to say. You reap what you sow.

True, if Honda would have built a halfway decent PU they wouldn't have to cope with all that negative publicity.

[Squid]

There is no more to say. You reap what you sow.

True, if Honda would have built a halfway decent PU they wouldn't have to cope with all that negative publicity.

If McLaren hadn't pushed them to the size zero concept, if McLaren hadn't made them join earlier than they wanted to, if Honda hadn't agreed to it... The wheel of blame goes round and round...

Everyone messed up. Honda messed up, McLaren messed up, and now they're left to pick up the pieces. Their joint fantasy of getting a manufacturer who hadn't built an F1 engine since 2008 to revolutionize the field of engine packaging in half the amount of time other teams had wasted 2 years of development.

It's just easier for McLaren to wash themselves of blame, because the long lasting damage they did was very, very early on the partnership.

[OviJohn]

In my country (wich is the same as Alonso) we fire those who can´t accomplish their own promises, in this case, Honda

Showing frustration when promises are broken is considered normal around here. Not there?

OT:
I also live in Spain, and you might get away with that attitude working at a bar or small family owned business. Theres a huge "seniority culture" here compared to corps I worked for over in the US; which have a high value for talent and accountability. So being up front about failure is not what I´ve usually experienced.

I work for a "big corp" here, and If you dare voice your frustrations as Alonso does, trust me, the least you´d get is a "yellow card" with good old HHRR department, and if done again, you´re out or can simply kiss your career progression good bye. The only way to get away with certain attitudes againt bosses here is by being heavily involved with an Union. (ELA, for example) And that certainly wont allow you to go and humiliate your bosses everytime you feel like it

So in case you do fail to meet deadlines or expectations, you will surely get fire, although there´s more tolerance due to good "pro labour laws", which would usually get you somewhat demoted or moved to another department, instead of being bluntly fired.

So getting a bit back to topic, Alonso is not doing himself any more favors by keeping the pressure on Honda with those radio messages and interviews. In fact, he might just be burning bridges with other manufacturers/teams on the grid. You could say that his awesome talent comes with great brand cost/liability if things are not working as he expects.

Are you really comparing any mortal job with Alonso´s job?

Obviously you missed it or I didn´t explain it properly (likely), but my reply was not about Spain, but about proffesional responsabilities.

People is saying Alonso is burning bridges.... What??? It´s HONDA who is burning bridges guys, right and left, front and back, you didn´t notice yet?

It´s Honda who did promise victories or at least podiums at this point of the project (second half of third season), but they´re light years back from accomplishing

AND people know it, and bash Honda day and night, but then, if we speak about Alonso.... then instantly Honda is a great company who is doing everything perfect and does not deserve any criticism from that egolatric driver called Alonso...


Seriously, you guys are funny. When I´m hired by a big company they may do some promises, but if they don´t accomplish I simply have to accept it, because there´s a million guys who can replace me so I´m forced to cope with it. But Alonso can´t be replaced by a million guys. Anyone comparing his job with Alonso´s job should learn some humility, that humility you say Alonso misses, you miss it too because even if you´re really good at your job, I´m sure you´re not as good as Alonso in his. Or you´re one of the three best in the world at least?

So basically Honda did some promises to be able to hire Alonso (who is making up Honda´s poor perfomance with awesome races like Hungary) but then they can´t accomplish, so Alonso received empty promises and obviously get angry after THREE season suffering an embarrasing PU wich can´t accomplish Honda promises.... but people still bash Alonso...



This is F1, anyone who can´t accomplish is severly criticized, anyone, drivers, mechanics, strategists, designers, manufacturers... Any reason Honda should be different. They´re getting the same Palmer is getting until Spa, the same Renault got from RBR, and the same any part involved in F1 who can´t accomplish get.



Alonso is demanding? Obviously, he´s one of the best and the best are demanding because they demand people around them to perform similar. Alonso and McLaren are accomplishing, but Honda isn´t.

And before you say something about McLaren not criticizing Honda... McLaren people do not risk his life while trying to not be fly passed by a Renault engine...

Fly passed by a Renault engine in second half of third season!!! But the bad boy here is Alonso... yeah guys, whatever you say

Woah woah! Seems like i hit a nerve here Andres. Sorry but I was merely replying to what seemed to be from you as straight forward statement, without any sort of figured speech or irony. In no way am I comparing myself or my work achievements to a high performance person such as Mr Alonso, but Im doing pretty ok

Now, consider that´s actually you who brings him to the "mortals realm" when you say here:

in Spain In my country (wich is the same as Alonso) we fire those who can´t accomplish their own promises, in this case, Honda

Showing frustration when promises are broken is considered normal around here. Not there?

This applies to ALL of us people living or sharing the territory

Nowhere in my post am I praising Honda or make them look "as victims". Heck! I dont see anyone doing that here. But one thing doesnt take out the other one. Alonso IS an employee and he should know best what certain behaviours bring along for him...As I concluded on that post you replied to.

In fact, I hope you already read what Cyril Abiteboul had to say about Alonso today. You can now add him to the "foolish" F1 team bosses list that are very weary to hire him, despite of his obvious talent. So yeah, just as Honda, the good old saying applies to him: "You reap what you sow"

Roll on Monza and that darn spec 4 for our boys!

[diffuser]

I'm a big Fernando Fan but If I was McLaren or his manager.... I'd recommend he get Counseling or Psychotherapy in the off season. They'd give him tricks on how to deal with frustration. It isn't normal that he can't deal with the frustration and needs to express it so publicly. It isn't helping his reputation either.

[Del Boy]

Why would McLaren want a Renault engine?
Red Bull probably has the most efficient chassis on the grid and their engine is Renault plus some extra testing measures and it's not Ferrari or Mercedes performance levels. At least staying with Honda their is hope (only a sliver) and I agree the management are lost. Zak Brown promised a raft of sponsors by 2nd half of this season and I see nothing on the sides of the car. I'm guessing his excuse is bad publicity, slow car, sponsors don't want to be associated with etc. Therefore he's bashing Honda and because the chassis looks good (1st time for 3-4 years) Honda are holding sponsors back! It sounds like his job is on the line and a new engine supplier will buy him some time. Ron was right to win the WCC you need a works engine, so I fail to see the wisdom of a Renault engine, in the long term at least.
Maybe I believe in the power of dreams!

[Sayeman]

Fernando is desperate for title, has nowhere else to go , he will do all he can to get rid of Honda. He has been sweet talking Mclaren but when push comes to shove, he will be the first one out with a pitchfork.

[GoranF1]

Fernando is desperate for title, has nowhere else to go , he will do all he can to get rid of Honda. He has been sweet talking Mclaren but when push comes to shove, he will be the first one out with a pitchfork.

All he needs to do is make 1 little phone call to Carlos Ghosn.

[nanocustic]

Asked specifically about the progress Honda are making with their power pack, Dennis enthused: “It is mindblowing, the engine is a piece of jewellery. They are further ahead than expected. The competiveness of the engine is without question.”

It still stings.

[Sayeman]

Fernando is desperate for title, has nowhere else to go , he will do all he can to get rid of Honda. He has been sweet talking Mclaren but when push comes to shove, he will be the first one out with a pitchfork.

All he needs to do is make 1 little phone call to Carlos Ghosn.

Ofcourse, one phone call to Ghosn and everthing will magically change for the better. Evil Honda will leave scraping their contracts and ambitions, Fernando will win the 3rd world title against all odds and everyone will be happy at F1technical.