2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[bauc]

McLaren-Honda split moves closer as team eyes Renault for 2018

Thank God!!! This nightmare must end ASAP!

Yup and not soon enough!

And what we get with Reno? For gods sake I'm not saying Honda is the way to go forward, clearly not if you look back the last 3&half years, but Reno? Verstapen and Alonso are competing who will have more DNF's at the end of the season

[Thunder]

And what we get with Reno? For gods sake I'm not saying Honda is the way to go forward, clearly not if you look back the last 3&half years, but Reno? Verstapen and Alonso are competing who will have more DNF's at the end of the season

Look at Ricciardo. 6 Podiums this Year.

[bauc]

And what we get with Reno? For gods sake I'm not saying Honda is the way to go forward, clearly not if you look back the last 3&half years, but Reno? Verstapen and Alonso are competing who will have more DNF's at the end of the season

Look at Ricciardo. 6 Podiums this Year.

Riccardo said he had a ''special'' relations with the car on the press conference, so I would not go further than that

[Manoah2u]

Nothing of interest for Alonso. He wants a WDC. So a occasional podium is fun and games, but it's about winning on merit.

apart from that, just days ago there were news posts about how Renault said there were conversations but they are unable to give Mclaren an engine because of the rules,which clearly indicate apart from the works team they cannot supply more than 2 customer teams, which they already have in RedBull and Toro Rosso.

Which thus must see Renault tear up a contract with RedBull and/or Toro Rosso, which i don't see happening really.

Especially since Ferrari is supplying Haas and Sauber already, so if one of these, let's say Toro Rosso would be ditched by Renault in favor of Mclaren , then Toro Rosso can't get their hands on a Ferrari power unit, nor on a Mercedes unit, since Mercedes too is supplying 2 customer teams in the shape of Williams and Force India.

So the only solution would be to dump the Honda engine somewhere else in exchange for a Renault engine, which really, NOBODY is going to do. Sauber said 'do not want'. Toro Rosso said 'do not want'. No other team is going to have even remotely any interest in the Honda engines. Only Haas might be the final possibility but they're not stupid so they'll say 'do not want' too.

Result? Mclaren can only stick with Honda engines.

The rules must be revised in order for Mclaren to get a Renault engine, but there is no way that is going to happen because the teams are happy with Mclaren in a less then perfect situation as it'll take a competitor out of the equasion for grabbing prize money. Mclaren would be an instant threat for Williams, RedBull, Renault and probably likewise for Ferrari and Mercedes. At best they'd give them a year-old engine, avoiding them to beat them, with the idea that the renault engine will be a band-aid untill the new rules in 2021 bring in a new supplier in the form of a scala of potential engine manufacturers like Porsche, BMW, VAG, Cosworth, etc.

As fun again as it sounds after Spa to hammer like there is no tomorrow on Honda, there is no way out, and that is the cold hard truth. Mclaren keeps Honda for 2018 whether they like it or not. IF alonso wants to stay in Formula 1, whether he likes it or not, he has nowhere to go but stay with Mclaren for 2018 as Ferrari is shut, and there is no rationale for Mercedes to replace Bottas with Alonso except for 1 factor: that keeping Bottas would prevent them from grabbing the WCC and WDC title, AND losing the sh*tload of Wihuri money Bottas takes with him can be missed or replaced. And since Bottas is still much in the game for being a WDC challenger in his first year suddenly promoted to the works Mercedes team, and being in great relationship with the team, not to forget his positive past with Wolff, there is really nothing believable about Alonso ending up there.

Alonso dug his own grave when he did not go to Mercedes this year when Rosberg quit. There is no way he could not go there contractually, Honda and Mclaren made a mess, and Mercedes always was going to be a better and safer bet than Mclaren-Honda. Mercedes mentioned their list included Alonso, and i doubt Hamilton Veto'd the shiz out of that.

I think Alonso was once again fooled by Honda in the numbers their tests were showing, and that the idea of a Hamilton-Alonso re-union could prove to be 'troublesome', for both Fernando as Mercedes, which i think is the reason it did not happen, sadly enough.

But in whatever way you shape it or fill in the blanks, Mclaren is sentenced to Honda for 2018, and Fernando is sentenced to Mclaren for 2018.

A pink overall could see him bring in podiums, but that still is NOT what Alonso wants. I can keep repeating this;
Mclaren-Honda for 2018, no other way around it.

For Alonso there is only 1 option besides Mclaren-Honda, and that is retiring from F1.

Still, let's just wait and see what happens next GP.

[Thunder]

Riccardo said he had a ''special'' relations with the car on the press conference, so I would not go further than that

I'm sure Eric and Stoffel can do better than Daniel with the PU actually understanding them...

[ZakB]

It's funny how people still expect that Honda will get close to Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault.

Renault is a big step forwards, around 65BHP currently and they have been working on their 2018 engine for the whole year, which is why there is a lack of updates. They are capable, while Honda still don't know what they're doing.

[banjo789]

The same thing keeps coming back. There are no options. For McLaren to get a new PU manufacturer 1 of a few things needs to happen.
1 - Honda leave F1 (they said they're staying).
2 - Honda would have to supply someone other than McLaren. This way McLaren could exit Honda deal without kicking them out of F1. (Honda said they're not negotiating with anyone else; they like McLaren).

So really the only option they have is to do what ALO is doing. That is make it embarrassing for Honda and highlight it(bring it to everyone's attention).

And the clock is ticking. If McLaren/Alonso want that Renualt deal they have to get out of their exisiting contract with Honda. I think if their was an escape 'clause' built in they would have exercised by now like Red Bull did with Renualt. You can always 'make friends' again later if things don't pan out as expected . So, without an easy legal OUT for McLaren, they are going to have to push Honda to the brink where Honda want to walk away from the exisiting contract. At this same time that have to also butter up Toro Rosso into taking the Honda package >

I'm expecting fireworks at the Italian Grand Prix

[Phil]

I really think people HUGELY understimate how frustrating must be driving with a Honda PU, specially for someone with the talent and curriculum as Alonso. Every driver drives poor cars at the beginnning of his career (or most), but a champion driving such a poor car... that´s not normal, maybe for some season his team messed it up, but not for three consecutive seasons

More than anything, I think this nicely highlights the "attitude" problem Alonso has. It's not relevant how frustrated he is. He is an employee, a single individual, driving for a team made up of hundredths of employees. It's a team-effort - it was always a team-effort. And one of the first lessons he should have learned years ago is that you don't hurt the hand that is feeding you.

He did it back then in 2007 when he was driving for McLaren and decided to blackmail his employer. The result was a burnt bridge and instead of driving in the car that won the 2008 championship, he was back in the midfield driving a Renault.

Ferrari was a great match up, but narrowly missing out on championships led to a sour relationship. Who in their right mind would have gone to McLaren in 2015, if it weren't the only option on the table? Either that move goes down as the worst decision in F1 history or one needs to accept that Ferrari's new management didn't want Alonso and left him no better place to go.

And look at it now? Vettel replaced him and despite two up and down years there, the team is finally in a position that could see them win their first WDC in 10 years.

Things aren't looking great at McLaren either. Schumacher always conducted himself as the team-player, even in the years on his comeback with Mercedes. Alonso is just about in the process of burning the only seat of a high budget team available to him. Even if we assume he pulls it off and McLaren gets out of that contract with Honda, would they fair better with a Renault engine? What if a better engine merely highlights the shortcomings of the McLaren car? What about the loss of sponsorship/investment by Honda? Will they still have the money available to spend as much as they are now?

Honda is paying a huge amount of money to McLaren in form of investment, driver salary and in an effort to balance the shortcomings of sponsors as a result of subpar performance. Kill that relationship and either McLaren is looking at a huge contractual mess by paying a fine and loss of a lot of money they are getting now to remain a high-budget-team.

It's always been a team-sport. I may not be a believer in Honda, but with stagnating engines, it's only a matter of time until they do catch up and narrow the gap. Reflecting on how Alonso is conducting himself, I do wonder though if he will still be part of this team when they do and McLaren finds themselves in a competitive position...

Alonso is living a situation probably not other WDC has suffered before

Unfortunately, it all falls flat when you consider the above and the fact that it was Alonso alone that put him in those situation(s). (Yes, plural).

[Redragon]

Nothing of interest for Alonso. He wants a WDC. So a occasional podium is fun and games, but it's about winning on merit.

apart from that, just days ago there were news posts about how Renault said there were conversations but they are unable to give Mclaren an engine because of the rules,which clearly indicate apart from the works team they cannot supply more than 2 customer teams, which they already have in RedBull and Toro Rosso.

Which thus must see Renault tear up a contract with RedBull and/or Toro Rosso, which i don't see happening really.

Especially since Ferrari is supplying Haas and Sauber already, so if one of these, let's say Toro Rosso would be ditched by Renault in favor of Mclaren , then Toro Rosso can't get their hands on a Ferrari power unit, nor on a Mercedes unit, since Mercedes too is supplying 2 customer teams in the shape of Williams and Force India.

So the only solution would be to dump the Honda engine somewhere else in exchange for a Renault engine, which really, NOBODY is going to do. Sauber said 'do not want'. Toro Rosso said 'do not want'. No other team is going to have even remotely any interest in the Honda engines. Only Haas might be the final possibility but they're not stupid so they'll say 'do not want' too.

Result? Mclaren can only stick with Honda engines.

The rules must be revised in order for Mclaren to get a Renault engine, but there is no way that is going to happen because the teams are happy with Mclaren in a less then perfect situation as it'll take a competitor out of the equasion for grabbing prize money. Mclaren would be an instant threat for Williams, RedBull, Renault and probably likewise for Ferrari and Mercedes. At best they'd give them a year-old engine, avoiding them to beat them, with the idea that the renault engine will be a band-aid untill the new rules in 2021 bring in a new supplier in the form of a scala of potential engine manufacturers like Porsche, BMW, VAG, Cosworth, etc.

As fun again as it sounds after Spa to hammer like there is no tomorrow on Honda, there is no way out, and that is the cold hard truth. Mclaren keeps Honda for 2018 whether they like it or not. IF alonso wants to stay in Formula 1, whether he likes it or not, he has nowhere to go but stay with Mclaren for 2018 as Ferrari is shut, and there is no rationale for Mercedes to replace Bottas with Alonso except for 1 factor: that keeping Bottas would prevent them from grabbing the WCC and WDC title, AND losing the sh*tload of Wihuri money Bottas takes with him can be missed or replaced. And since Bottas is still much in the game for being a WDC challenger in his first year suddenly promoted to the works Mercedes team, and being in great relationship with the team, not to forget his positive past with Wolff, there is really nothing believable about Alonso ending up there.

Alonso dug his own grave when he did not go to Mercedes this year when Rosberg quit. There is no way he could not go there contractually, Honda and Mclaren made a mess, and Mercedes always was going to be a better and safer bet than Mclaren-Honda. Mercedes mentioned their list included Alonso, and i doubt Hamilton Veto'd the shiz out of that.

I think Alonso was once again fooled by Honda in the numbers their tests were showing, and that the idea of a Hamilton-Alonso re-union could prove to be 'troublesome', for both Fernando as Mercedes, which i think is the reason it did not happen, sadly enough.

But in whatever way you shape it or fill in the blanks, Mclaren is sentenced to Honda for 2018, and Fernando is sentenced to Mclaren for 2018.

A pink overall could see him bring in podiums, but that still is NOT what Alonso wants. I can keep repeating this;
Mclaren-Honda for 2018, no other way around it.

For Alonso there is only 1 option besides Mclaren-Honda, and that is retiring from F1.

Still, let's just wait and see what happens next GP.

I don't think he dug his grave last Christmas, maybe they had a pre contract where Alonso didn't sign last chritmas as he wanted to see how Honda with new engine were going to do. That would be an honourable way to do. If he would have signed for Mercedes last Christmas he would have been blamed of only thinking about himself and not the team and project.... I still believe Mercedes is waiting Alo decision because at this stage they could have signed Bottas easily. Mr Lauda sent a little message this weekend about how expensive he is, you don't mention the salary of someone if you are not worried or dealing with it. I don't think Mercedes were interested on Alo 9 months ago and now they are not but I could be wrong.

[Redragon]

Nothing of interest for Alonso. He wants a WDC. So a occasional podium is fun and games, but it's about winning on merit.

apart from that, just days ago there were news posts about how Renault said there were conversations but they are unable to give Mclaren an engine because of the rules,which clearly indicate apart from the works team they cannot supply more than 2 customer teams, which they already have in RedBull and Toro Rosso.

Which thus must see Renault tear up a contract with RedBull and/or Toro Rosso, which i don't see happening really.

Especially since Ferrari is supplying Haas and Sauber already, so if one of these, let's say Toro Rosso would be ditched by Renault in favor of Mclaren , then Toro Rosso can't get their hands on a Ferrari power unit, nor on a Mercedes unit, since Mercedes too is supplying 2 customer teams in the shape of Williams and Force India.

So the only solution would be to dump the Honda engine somewhere else in exchange for a Renault engine, which really, NOBODY is going to do. Sauber said 'do not want'. Toro Rosso said 'do not want'. No other team is going to have even remotely any interest in the Honda engines. Only Haas might be the final possibility but they're not stupid so they'll say 'do not want' too.

Result? Mclaren can only stick with Honda engines.

The rules must be revised in order for Mclaren to get a Renault engine, but there is no way that is going to happen because the teams are happy with Mclaren in a less then perfect situation as it'll take a competitor out of the equasion for grabbing prize money. Mclaren would be an instant threat for Williams, RedBull, Renault and probably likewise for Ferrari and Mercedes. At best they'd give them a year-old engine, avoiding them to beat them, with the idea that the renault engine will be a band-aid untill the new rules in 2021 bring in a new supplier in the form of a scala of potential engine manufacturers like Porsche, BMW, VAG, Cosworth, etc.

As fun again as it sounds after Spa to hammer like there is no tomorrow on Honda, there is no way out, and that is the cold hard truth. Mclaren keeps Honda for 2018 whether they like it or not. IF alonso wants to stay in Formula 1, whether he likes it or not, he has nowhere to go but stay with Mclaren for 2018 as Ferrari is shut, and there is no rationale for Mercedes to replace Bottas with Alonso except for 1 factor: that keeping Bottas would prevent them from grabbing the WCC and WDC title, AND losing the sh*tload of Wihuri money Bottas takes with him can be missed or replaced. And since Bottas is still much in the game for being a WDC challenger in his first year suddenly promoted to the works Mercedes team, and being in great relationship with the team, not to forget his positive past with Wolff, there is really nothing believable about Alonso ending up there.

Alonso dug his own grave when he did not go to Mercedes this year when Rosberg quit. There is no way he could not go there contractually, Honda and Mclaren made a mess, and Mercedes always was going to be a better and safer bet than Mclaren-Honda. Mercedes mentioned their list included Alonso, and i doubt Hamilton Veto'd the shiz out of that.

I think Alonso was once again fooled by Honda in the numbers their tests were showing, and that the idea of a Hamilton-Alonso re-union could prove to be 'troublesome', for both Fernando as Mercedes, which i think is the reason it did not happen, sadly enough.

But in whatever way you shape it or fill in the blanks, Mclaren is sentenced to Honda for 2018, and Fernando is sentenced to Mclaren for 2018.

A pink overall could see him bring in podiums, but that still is NOT what Alonso wants. I can keep repeating this;
Mclaren-Honda for 2018, no other way around it.

For Alonso there is only 1 option besides Mclaren-Honda, and that is retiring from F1.

Still, let's just wait and see what happens next GP.

I don't think he dug his grave last Christmas, maybe they had a pre contract where Alonso didn't sign last chritmas as he wanted to see how Honda with new engine were going to do. That would be an honourable way to do. If he would have signed for Mercedes last Christmas he would have been blamed of only thinking about himself and not the team and project.... I still believe Mercedes is waiting Alo decision because at this stage they could have signed Bottas easily. Mr Lauda sent a little message this weekend about how expensive he is, you don't mention the salary of someone if you are not worried or dealing with it. Mercedes were interested on Alo 9 months ago and now they are not??? that's weird but I could be wrong.

[Phil]

I don't think Mercedes were interested on Alo 9 months ago and now they are not but I could be wrong.

IMO there never was a pre-contract for Alonso with Mercedes. Mercedes was keeping an open eye for Vettel, not Alonso. Now that Vettel has signed and limited himself to Ferrari for 3 years, it makes things easier for Mercedes and Bottas.

If Alonso had a realistic chance of getting into that Mercedes seat last christmas, he'd be mad for not grabbing it with both his hands and his legs. I can't believe for a second that seat was ever offered to him.

[banjo789]

I don't think Mercedes were interested on Alo 9 months ago and now they are not but I could be wrong.

IMO there never was a pre-contract for Alonso with Mercedes. Mercedes was keeping an open eye for Vettel, not Alonso. Now that Vettel has signed and limited himself to Ferrari for 3 years, it makes things easier for Mercedes and Bottas.

If Alonso had a realistic chance of getting into that Mercedes seat last christmas, he'd be mad for not grabbing it with both his hands and his legs. I can't believe for a second that seat was ever offered to him.

I don't think it would help Merc win next years WC if Alonso signed with the cars being so evenly matched. Ham/Alsono would take points off each other all year. Ferrari in contrast, would favour their leading driver and it would be 2007 all over again.

[Sayeman]

Mclaren just doesn't want a divorce, they want a divorce and another 200 million dough from Honda to pay for Renault engines for the next 2-3 years. Laughable really, you berate your business partner every day and then expect him to butter you up with bunch of money when you kick him out of f1.

Renault is already fed up with Redbull/Horner because of their constant criticism and whining, even last race Horner complained that "The service Renault is providing is not worth the money they are paying". I highly doubt they want another layer from criticism on top of that from Alonso/Boulier/Mclaren every week. And every time Mclaren doesn't beat Redbull/Renault there will be complaints in the press about not providing ample support/mappings to Mclaren from Renault because every one knows how good Mclaren's chassis is.

[radosav]

When is Honda bringing Spec 4 engine?

[Andres125sx]

Woah woah! Seems like i hit a nerve here Andres.

I really think people HUGELY understimate how frustrating must be driving with a Honda PU, specially for someone with the talent and curriculum as Alonso. Every driver drives poor cars at the beginnning of his career (or most), but a champion driving such a poor car... that´s not normal, maybe for some season his team messed it up, but not for three consecutive seasons

Alonso is living a situation probably not other WDC has suffered before

I guess you missed Schumacher in the Merc? Remember how he was just running to do tire testing during the US GP?

After three years out of F1, with 41 years old, and Rosberg did beat him constantly, so not comparable

People say this about Alonso since his first Renault days, but even so he´s been part of McLaren (2 times), Ferrari, and Renault, so I wouldn´t say he´s closed doors anywhere, actually he´s driven for the best F1 teams despite his hot personality

This is a bit too short look at the vita:
- Renault was together with Briatore. This always worked.
- He went to Ferrari after two "calm down" seasons at Renault.
- Honda wanted him in the McLaren. I doubt, that Ron would have hired him alone.

Fact, he´s been McLaren driver two times, Renault driver two times, and Ferrari driver too, so I really think all of you who talk about how badass is Alonso and how little interest do F1 teams have on him, should check reality out.

Media PR is one thing, reality is a different one

According to the Marca the bridge is now burned. He set an ultimatum to the end of the year...either him or Honda.

Marca... yeah, I know them too well to rely any of their news