2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[Andres125sx]

McLaren-Honda split moves closer as team eyes Renault for 2018

Thank God!!! This nightmare must end ASAP!

If true, that´s depressing

So they renounced to the best PU because they only were a customer team, and now they´re going to get third best PU also as a customer team?

[Andres125sx]

I really think people HUGELY understimate how frustrating must be driving with a Honda PU, specially for someone with the talent and curriculum as Alonso. Every driver drives poor cars at the beginnning of his career (or most), but a champion driving such a poor car... that´s not normal, maybe for some season his team messed it up, but not for three consecutive seasons

More than anything, I think this nicely highlights the "attitude" problem Alonso has. It's not relevant how frustrated he is. He is an employee, a single individual

Error. He´s not a single individual, he´s, unquestionably, one of the best 3 drivers on the grid, the best of them for many people, so you can´t take it as a simple employee.

There´s a reason Honda demanded for his partneship with Mclaren Alonso as a driver, and it´s not because he´s an employee, a single individual, but someone who can make the difference

And to hire Alonso, they promised a competitive PU in 3-4 seasons, with some victory or podium from third season, wich is current season. Do you think they´re close to accomplish?


Alonso complaining about Honda is not a product of Alonso´s egolatry, it´s a product of Honda´s empty promises

He did it back then in 2007 when he was driving for McLaren and decided to blackmail his employer. The result was a burnt bridge

..... errrr.... what???

Where have you been since 2015?

The result was a burnt bridge and instead of driving in the car that won the 2008 championship, he was back in the midfield driving a Renault.

What prove how unfair McLaren was with him in 2007. You obviously don´t remind, but Alonso had a contract with Mclaren for 2008, so he could have stayed in McLaren if he liked, but instead of that, he did prefer to drive a poor Renault...

I really can´t imagine what Mclaren did in 2007 with Alonso, but it should be quite severe for him to prefer going to Renault when he had a valid contract with McLaren for 2008... but I can get an idea after some evidences (yes we made a mistake with Alonso´s tires pressures.... we don´t fight Kimi, we fight Alonso.... FIA stewart inside McLaren garage to ensure there´s no sabotage...)

But people keep saying there was nothing weird inside McLaren in 2007

Ferrari was a great match up, but narrowly missing out on championships led to a sour relationship. Who in their right mind would have gone to McLaren in 2015, if it weren't the only option on the table?

Easy, someone who receive some promise to fight for titles in 3-4 seasons after realizing his current team wouldn´t fight for titles in that period.

It looks like he was right about Ferrari, but he bought Honda promises, that was his only mistake, and now he´s paying the price

[ZakB]

When is Honda bringing Spec 4 engine?

Monza, but it's a small update. The big one is coming in October, although it's probably too late by then.

[Del Boy]

This relationship with Honda and the frustration might push along the 2021 engine decision. I wonder if Ricardo have been asked about building a PU for F1 in 2021 particularly if the FIA can keep cost of each engine relatively low by simplifying the ERS!!

[HPD]

I think it's the Autosport plus version. By Gary Anderson

"Force India isn't the only team with driver problems. Again, Fernando Alonso had trouble with Honda at Spa and he's clearly now at the point where he's fed up with the situation. He wants to be in a competitive package and he does not have that with McLaren-Honda.

He's made some pretty poor decisions lately, is he about to make another one with his career? It looks like he might have parked a healthy car at the weekend, and that's never good for team morale - not that anyone in the McLaren garage is happy with the situation.

To add to Honda's problems, I don't understand why, for some very strange reason, when everyone else removed the most draggy parts from their cars, McLaren continued to use such parts. With a car that we all know - and as Alonso keeps reminding us every race - doesn't have the power of the others, optimising it for the mid-section of the track means that it is sacrificing performance in section one and three.

I believe a better compromise was there to be had. Would it have made much difference? Probably not but it would have meant it might just have been able to hold its own on those long straights just that little bit better.

After all, Alonso confused his engine in qualifying by taking Pouhon flat, which again suggests the balance wasn't right."

[MotoManiac]

I think it's the Autosport plus version. By Gary Anderson

"To add to Honda's problems, I don't understand why, for some very strange reason, when everyone else removed the most draggy parts from their cars, McLaren continued to use such parts. With a car that we all know - and as Alonso keeps reminding us every race - doesn't have the power of the others, optimising it for the mid-section of the track means that it is sacrificing performance in section one and three.

I believe a better compromise was there to be had. Would it have made much difference? Probably not but it would have meant it might just have been able to hold its own on those long straights just that little bit better."

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of McLaren intentionally compromising their race potential to force the engine situation. They tried to play the victim card, didn't work, no one wants to give them a PU so they have gone aggressive, both team and drivers, and looks like some of the engine "failures" weren't failures at all!

For Honda, going aggressive in both development and attitude will be the best course of action now, at least show some speed in the races and tell McLaren to shut up and go sit in the corner. No more "We are sorry! We are ashamed! in the press, we have heard enough of those these last 3 years. Atleast they told us the truth about Ferdnando's power unit being intact and didn't go along with their star driver.

Bringing a big update like Renault did last year (35kw) will soothe some of the burns.

[DrDejan]

I think it's the Autosport plus version. By Gary Anderson

"Force India isn't the only team with driver problems. Again, Fernando Alonso had trouble with Honda at Spa and he's clearly now at the point where he's fed up with the situation. He wants to be in a competitive package and he does not have that with McLaren-Honda.

He's made some pretty poor decisions lately, is he about to make another one with his career? It looks like he might have parked a healthy car at the weekend, and that's never good for team morale - not that anyone in the McLaren garage is happy with the situation.

To add to Honda's problems, I don't understand why, for some very strange reason, when everyone else removed the most draggy parts from their cars, McLaren continued to use such parts. With a car that we all know - and as Alonso keeps reminding us every race - doesn't have the power of the others, optimising it for the mid-section of the track means that it is sacrificing performance in section one and three.

I believe a better compromise was there to be had. Would it have made much difference? Probably not but it would have meant it might just have been able to hold its own on those long straights just that little bit better.

After all, Alonso confused his engine in qualifying by taking Pouhon flat, which again suggests the balance wasn't right."

Another suggestion that chassis, aero, and engine teams are not coordinated or not communicate well. Looking forward, this is a bigger problem than just the engine performance. I don't expect everyone to go back believing in each other even if there is an engine update. I'm not seeing signs that the top level management is looking so far in the future (I'm secretly hoping the future is just around the corner).

[ZakB]

You guys really eat everything you see don't you? Even Ferrari was taking Pouhon flat and they arrive at higher speeds. Honda is a joke and should be removed asap and Gary Anderson is the biggest McLaren hater currently alive. Remember when he said in the winter that the chassis wasn't great either, while everyone already knew the problems were caused by the vibrations of the --- stain. Oh and spec 4 is just a small update, so don't get your hopes up.

Honda falls short at every point, just like their ancient road cards. No expertise, no budget, no nothing.

[Mad]

You guys really eat everything you see don't you? Even Ferrari was taking Pouhon flat and they arrive at higher speeds. Honda is a joke and should be removed asap and Gary Anderson is the biggest McLaren hater currently alive. Remember when he said in the winter that the chassis wasn't great either, while everyone already knew the problems were caused by the vibrations of the --- stain. Oh and spec 4 is just a small update, so don't get your hopes up.

Honda falls short at every point, just like their ancient road cards. No expertise, no budget, no nothing.

Sums up McLaren's current attitude, another reason for their downfall.
"We have a chassis that's so good that even a slight hint of criticism means that the criticizing person is the biggest McLaren hater ever."

The same reason they ditched Mercedes, they thought their chassis was far better than the results were showing.

If Honda is so bad, why did McLaren made a 10 year contract with them? Money....they dug their own graves...Now they have to stay there till 2021.

[NL_Fer]

I wonder if Honda even wants to make another big investment. If they are on the correct road with the 2017 PU, '15 and '16 were waste of time and i think they can only be competitive in 2019 and 2020. Will they invest for only 2 good years, or will be powering a backmarker and focus on the much easier 2021 PU be the better option?

[BeardedAce]

Fernando's getting grumpier by the day, how many times have we heard "I will quit" from him this year. When Liberty media expressed their intention of increasing races per year, Fernando growled "I will quit", prompting Carey to arrange a personal face to face with him. If Liberty/FIA are given a choice of keeping Fernando or Honda, I am 99.9% sure they will choose the later.

[Phil]

Error. He´s not a single individual, he´s, unquestionably, one of the best 3 drivers on the grid, the best of them for many people, so you can´t take it as a simple employee.

Oh dear...

employee
ɛmplɔɪˈiː,ɛmˈplɔɪiː,ɪmˈplɔɪiː/Submit
noun
a person employed for wages or salary, especially at non-executive level.
synonyms: worker, member of staff, member of the workforce;

employer
ɪmˈplɔɪə,ɛmˈplɔɪə/Submit
noun
noun: employer; plural noun: employers
a person or organization that employs people.
synonyms: boss, manager, manageress, patron, proprietor, director, managing director, chief executive, principal, president, head man, head woman;

One applies to Fernando Alonso, the other unquestionably to team McLaren and Honda. To put it into simpler terms; One entity (the employer) employs the employee in exchange for a service. This service includes driving an F1 car as well as satisfying sponsors, promoting the sport etc. For that the employee (the driver) receives a salary. In the case of Fernando Alonso, this salary is apparently as high as $40M/year.

Winning races and championships are a common goal both employer and employee share. It's rather doubtful this is in the contract any driver - yes including Alonso - signed. There may be performance (-exit) clauses for both parties as well as what happens in case one party breaches the contract. The performance clause may be a bit tricky, as I assume that Honda being a newcomer would know it's a bit of an unknown to predict how well they'd perform etc. Even so, I'd assume there would be some performance clause in there at least as of season 2 or 3, making sure that a certain WCC position is reached by point X, Y and Z and if not, that the driver has an exit clause he can trigger, similar to what Vettel used to switch to Ferrari in 2014.

The notion being put forward that Alonso is some kind of victim because Ferrari or McLaren-Honda supposedly promised a golden future is laughable. No team can promise championships. How could they? It's anyones guess. At best, educated guesses were made based on reasonable expectations etc. Hamilton was lured to Mercedes, a team performing no better than a distant 5th at the time (they not even had half the points of Lotus-Renault in 4th). He still went to Mercedes, not because he was "promised" anything, but because he wasn't happy at McLaren and he had faith that the things Mercedes (Ross Brawn) showed him showed promise. It was a gamble, one that payed off.

Alonso went to McLaren in 2007 for similar reasons. He also went to Ferrari later, because everyone knows that the Scuderia is perhaps the greatest name in F1. Ferrari is synonymous to F1 as it is vice-versa. And over the years, they have been a steady, consistent performer, even when not a WDC winning team. The point being; teams don't make promises. They dream and invest and hope that it all pays off. In the most basic sense though; the team is the employer who decides who drives in their team and pays a salary for that and other things. If no team is willing to employ Fernando Alonso, his "ability" or gift of being the greatest is worth zip, nada, zilch, nada... nothing. So yes, Fernando is a simple individual, an employee of a team that employs thousands of employees.

I really can´t imagine what Mclaren did in 2007 with Alonso, but it should be quite severe for him to prefer going to Renault when he had a valid contract with McLaren for 2008...

Err, the contract was evidently terminated by mutual agreement, because the team and Alonso no longer wanted to continue after what happened. As for what happened, well, it's rather well documented if you'd bother to read up on it. Basically things turned very bad when the driver started to blackmail his team/boss which is pretty much a big no-go. So yes, things turned very sour so instead of being able to drive the 2008 McLaren as planned and perhaps win another championship (or be runner up, who knows), he chose to go back to a team that was nowhere.

One can argue many things about what McLaren did or did not do wrong back then with their star-driver, but it's rather summed up easily into that McLaren did produce a WDC winning car the year after and one driver was there to win it (Hamilton) and the other somehow burned his seat and was not. The loser in 2007 and 2008 was no other than Fernando Alonso.

To make matters worse - things didn't go much better at Ferrari. They did at first, but after 2012, things started to go very sour there too. One just has to ask themselves why on earth Fernando Alonso would have even considered going to McLaren in 2015 when it was evident that McLaren was a team going backwards. 2013 and 2014, both with Mercedes engines, showed the shortcomings of those cars and there was nothing engine related about that. And he chose that team over the team that was consistently in the top 3 how many years in a row (yes, with the exception of 2014).

The matter of fact is that Ferrari wanted and needed change. Alonso didn't fit in, he had to leave. And the only high budget team that had an opening was McLaren that showed some promise with Honda jumping in. If he had been smart, he'd have waited a year and tried to get an opening at Mercedes either when Hamilton or Rosbergs contract came up for renewal (Hamilton was to the best of my knowledge on a 3 year deal from 2013-2015, not sure about Rosberg). RedBull was never going to be interested as a result of their in-house driver development program. Yet Alonso jumped to McLaren, go figure...

I'm willing to bet the bridge at Ferrari was so burned that he had no other choice but to leave and either take a year out or go for the next best thing - a seat at McLaren.

Fast forward to today and the attitude is still there. Strangely, not only prevalent in Alonso himself, but his fans too. The "attitude" that the star driver deserves a championship. The fact that he is not in a team capable of doing so is fuelling his and their frustrations over the perceived injustice. And with it, in the process of burning yet another bridge. I wouldn't discount Honda coming good at some point if they somehow retain that partnership with McLaren, but I'm rather doubtful Alonso will still be there. Either he will have left by his own ultimatum (Him or Honda) or Honda will at some point realise that they'd rather have a professional driver who does not humiliate them at every opportunity.

As I said numerous times - his ability to drive a F1 car fast is beyond doubt. But to feel sorry for him... well, with that attitude. I certainly don't. Not when you consider that he has only himself to blame for the race seats he has ended up with over the years. When Vettel wins this years championship (he might), it will be a severe blow to Fernando and already will turn out to be the 2nd championship winning seat he lost due to his temper and attitude.

Last but not least: I am very certain that Fernando Alonso is not bound to McLaren-Honda by contract anymore. Given this is his 3rd season, I'm fairly confident there are exit clauses that have been already triggered by the subpar performance so far - at least since end of season 2. This means that Alonso is a free man. He is not forced to stay with McLaren. If he was that wanted because everyone accepts he is "the greatest ever" - why the hell hasn't he already been grabbed by any of the top 2-3 works teams (Ferrari/Mercedes/Renault)? His speed is clearly undisputed. Each of those two/three teams have two seats - each had an opening just this and next year. Why is Alonso not with any of them, if not for his character? Because he believes in McLaren? Yeah, right...

[diffuser]

Fernando's getting grumpier by the day, how many times have we heard "I will quit" from him this year. When Liberty media expressed their intention of increasing races per year, Fernando growled "I will quit", prompting Carey to arrange a personal face to face with him. If Liberty/FIA are given a choice of keeping Fernando or Honda, I am 99.9% sure they will choose the later.

If you're gonna quote someone ...get it right.
"Asked if he would quit F1 if it reached 25 races per year, Alonso replied: “Yes.“I started when the calendar was 17 races plus the tests. Now they keep increasing the races year after year and we are at a number that is quite demanding. At this point of my career, I consider a good quality of life is more important than doing more seasons in F1. If calendar stays this 20/21 range that we know from the last couple of years, I will be happy to continue. But if it increases like NASCAR, it is not for me, it is better for other drivers.”

For the record NASCAR has 36 races.

[RS200E]

Monza is going to be a nighmare. Probably dead last or DNF.

[bauc]

When is Honda bringing Spec 4 engine?

Maybe for Japan GP