Mercedes AMG Hyper Car

[Tim.Wright]

The lower half of the roll element has a rigid housing that is attached to the right-hand side bellcrank, yet it houses a spring internally. That spring must be actuated internally via a hydraulic piston.

What's the precedent for using heave & roll elements only in a suspension design? Why is there a (seemingly) remotely actuated spring within the lower half of the roll element?

The semi hidden spring in the roll element is (probably) there to simply apply a preload to the other exposed coil spring in order to make the roll element work in both tension and compression. Coil springs, when seated between 2 perches, only work in compression. In tension they lose contact with the perch and fall off their seat. This behaviour is fine for the heave element which only ever sees compression loads. But in roll, this particular element looks to be in compression when the body rolls to the left and tension when it rolls to the right.

To keep the exposed spring from falling off it's seat it looks like they have used a through rod damper (to avoid damper gas preload from giving an asymmetrical roll stiffness) and then an opposing spring where the rod exits the damper body on the other side. The "cage" structure goes around this second spring to connect the damper body to the other rocker arm. So I don't think that other spring is remotely actuated. There doesn't seem to be any interconnection points (either hydraulic or mechanical) on these dampers so at lease on the show car it doesn't look to have a FRIC system.

[seventhsin]

Thanks for the extra pictures, the turbo configuration makes total sense now. It's quite an elegant way to route the plumbing, and little distance from compressor outlet to plenum.

[Nickel]

So if this thing is ostensibly supposed to use an f1 engine, albeit somewhat modified, does it mean when Mercedes start running it around a track to test it that it becomes a defacto muel car? What are the chances that new ideas get thrown in, even if never intended for the "public"?

[humble sabot]

I think the engine regs will change by the time that matters.

edit: i just remembered they did mention something about some mules running already.
I do wonder what relevance there might be found since the load profiles and lifetimes are rather different. They have to start with the modifications that allow it to operate at lower speeds. Maybe they'll pick up some cooling and oiling ideas since it won't be running at ten tenths so much and will be relying on fans more than forward speed to drive air through coolers, for example.

[Chubbs]

Do you think the suspension layout is similar to that used in DAX kit cars? See link below for description of what I am referring to.

https://427motorco.co.uk/pages/the-camb ... ion-system

[Tim.Wright]

Do you think the suspension layout is similar to that used in DAX kit cars?

I don't think so. Looks like they are simply using one damper for heave and one for roll. The control arms are connected to a rigid structure.

[Powerslide]

They may have had target weights for the vehicle & unsprung components that rendered cf suspension members unnecessary. The suspension is interesting. There does not appear to be dedicated corner springs & dampers, only roll & heave. The rockers don't look like they house torsion springs.

The lower half of the roll element has a rigid housing that is attached to the right-hand side bellcrank, yet it houses a spring internally. That spring must be actuated internally via a hydraulic piston.

What's the precedent for using heave & roll elements only in a suspension design? Why is there a (seemingly) remotely actuated spring within the lower half of the roll element?

doing away with an anti roll bar, probably using conventional spring set up directly adjusting roll load. this means the project one has three springs loaded up on bump...not going to be too confortable from a spring load perspective. this is a really lightweight design from the looks of it

[Powerslide]

[Powerslide]

analyzing if my drawing is correct, its going to be difficult to control compression damping and rebound. it must share the same characteristics unless eventually they will seperate damper unit to two

[Tim.Wright]

analyzing if my drawing is correct, its going to be difficult to control compression damping and rebound. it must share the same characteristics unless eventually they will seperate damper unit to two

They will do that on the 'third element' I'd imagine.

doing away with an anti roll bar, probably using conventional spring set up directly adjusting roll load. this means the project one has three springs loaded up on bump...not going to be too confortable from a spring load perspective. this is a really lightweight design from the looks of it

Only one spring works in pure heave compression. The 2 preloaded roll springs don't change length in pure heave movements.

[Powerslide]

yes its pretty clear it has a heave spring acting against each end in heave motion but if each suspension individually hits a bump, three springs be effected, two compress and one expand as tension load, making it harder on the bumper than having a normal set up

[Tim.Wright]

The number of spring is irrelevant. What counts is the resulting wheel rates. If the wheel rates are sized to give the same heave and roll rates as a traditional system then the reaction forces (and therefore system response) will be identical.

[Edis]

Apparent in the video are variable stator blades & a control ring on the compressor inlet.

https://s23.postimg.org/4c1026f8r/image.jpg

MGUH is mentioned as "right behind" the compressor. I think this is the first time the H's exact location within the V has been seen or officially mentioned.

Modern F1's drivetrain durability regulations make it possible to use F1 components directly in road cars, it would seem. I wonder it that was an intent as drafted. Road relevance not in the sense of technology trickle-down to mass-production vehicles, but in durability & user friendliness of F1 componentry. A way for engine suppliers to sell their F1 engines outside of F1. Couldn't really do that as easily with those one-session V10s.

I think road relevance with regard to F1 has been mostly materials, processes,manufacturing, etc, for quite some time now.

This example from Merc is actually the first car who's road relevance to F1 reaches outside the bounds of manufacturing and into actual part design and components.

Bravo to Merc for this though. Can't wait to see it against the Aston on track.

Usually there is little road relevance for materials, processes and manufacturing in F1. For materials, F1 is partly too restrictive and secondly too expensive. Processes and manufacturing are different in F1 since it is optimized for low volume production, high flexibility and high unit cost (but low tooling costs).

Other parts like the advanced combustion research required to make these new engines is certainly road relevant, and so could the electric turbochargers be someday (not the actual units but the know how to make them, and their control strategies).

It's not the first time a F1 engine is used for a road car though, as Ferrari F50 had an engine derived from Tipo 036.

[Powerslide]

The number of spring is irrelevant. What counts is the resulting wheel rates. If the wheel rates are sized to give the same heave and roll rates as a traditional system then the reaction forces (and therefore system response) will be identical.

on the three springs, im viewing it from a perspective that when its meant to be used way below 100% and under normal driving condition accounting to how well it loads on pitch roll warp control and how well the suspension absorbs the everyday road conditions

as you have mention, one heave spring and the two roll spring has no effect on heave. i think this is also another failing point of this design. the lack of load to potential roll under braking or acceleration or high dive/squat. unlike conventional suspension which will load up potential roll load as each spring is compressed on each corner at heave. this set up just loads up heave. there is no compression correlation on heave and roll. say under heavy braking, center of pressure moves forward sending grip as well, as the suspension compress, there is no compensation for those extra forces. the car will get more roll under these forces so it will warp

[Holm86]

It'll be revealed on september 12'th, so we will soon see the beast




https://www.topgear.com/car-news/superc ... top-217mph