2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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ZakB
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Sayeman wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 15:57
ZakB wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 15:55
Phil wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 15:50
For those that missed the obvious;

This was Monza. High speed circuit? Top speed, engine performance and aero dynamic efficiency is key?

It was always going to be a painful race for the obvious weakest engine on the grid. Despite that, i didnt think their showing was that bad.

Again: Honda brings a lot more to the partnership than just a works-engine. They also supplied McLaren with lots of money to invest and create the strong car it is.

Moving to a customer team relationship is not without risks and disadvantages. See RedBull in 14 - 16 and this year too.
Yeah, money that has been wasted by sponsors walking away and almost no prize money. McLaren will be fine.
By fine, do u mean being the 4th best team at best?
By fine, do u mean driving around with a crap engine for 4 years in a row?

ScottB
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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That and by allowing Honda to move to STR, if they ever do come good, you've just handed a works engine deal to RBR...

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Phil
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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ZakB wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 15:55
Yeah, money that has been wasted by sponsors walking away and almost no prize money.
News flash: McLarens loss of sponsors started before Honda came in and started paying the bills.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Sayeman
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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ZakB wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 15:59
Sayeman wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 15:57
ZakB wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 15:55


Yeah, money that has been wasted by sponsors walking away and almost no prize money. McLaren will be fine.
By fine, do u mean being the 4th best team at best?
By fine, do u mean driving around with a crap engine for 4 years in a row?
It's been 3 years not 4...
Last edited by Steven on 03 Sep 2017, 16:11, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed personal comments
Never Give up.

McL-H
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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zeph wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 15:34
With the exception of 2015, Renault engines have won races every year.

Nobody can predict the future, and I'll admit there's a possibility that next year's Renault PU will be a donkey. But you can only make decisions based on the data available today. And from that, I'd say the Renault is a much better PU than Honda.

No need to put on a brave face. Honda doesn't have a clue. I want them to win, but after three years we should have seen more improvement.
Let's not forget, Red Bull has a contract with Renault, stating that they should receive equal machinery to the Renault works team. It's an agreement that's left from their works deal, but this agreement does not stand for next season. Renault works team will have better engines, like Mercedes had better engines than McLaren in 2014. If McLaren becomes a Renault customer, they will receive machinery that's sub-par to the machinery the Renault works team is having, while the Renault PU is already sub-par compared to Mercedes and Ferrari. McLaren will have to change its car concept to the Renault PU, will have to develop fuel lubricants for the Renault PU.. While Renault develops all of this in-house with its partners. Being a works team, you always have an advantage to those who are customers. Therefore, becoming a Renault customer is a really stupid decision. If they would have gone with Mercedes PU, it might have been a short-term advantage compared to Honda (longer term still chanceless for champiosnhip).. but Renault isn't a step forward on either short term or long term. And I haven't even spoken about the financial side of it. Paying for engines, or getting paid for engines, that have pretty much the same reliabilty and a closing gap in terms of outright speed. Honda is McLaren's only way forward and I really don't understand how we can still debate about this, looking at this from a realistic point of view.

ZakB
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Sayeman wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 16:01
ZakB wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 15:59
Sayeman wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 15:57


By fine, do u mean being the 4th best team at best?
By fine, do u mean driving around with a crap engine for 4 years in a row?
It's been 3 years not 4...
It will be 4.
Last edited by Steven on 03 Sep 2017, 16:12, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited quoted post

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Shrieker
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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McLAren should stay with Honda if their only other option is Renault. Going to Renault would not be a significant performance improvement. Plus the loss of $$$ from Honda and the fact that they have to PAY for Renault engines. AND add to that the possibility of Honda finally coming good; and they'll be a laughing stock. It's a no brainer: Stick with Honda. But the guys over at skysports (Dill) were reporting that McLaren's deal with Renault is already done, and that they just don't wanna announce it yet.
Last edited by Shrieker on 03 Sep 2017, 16:26, edited 3 times in total.
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RS200E
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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I do quite like Renault as a works team. But a McLaren Renault doesn't sit well. If a switch does take place I hope McLaren have a long term plan.

Either to produce their own engine in 2021 or to have Honda back with the same deal as now when Honda can perform.

My gut feeling is that McLaren with stick with Honda and Honda will supply STR additionally. This will boost Honda's development by having 4 cars running and STR will maybe get free engines or much cheaper at least.

That will lead onto Red Bull keeping an eye on development of the Honda and at least have an alternative to the Renault. Red Bull could also use Illien again to work on the Honda.

Thinking longer term if Honda can get 3 teams tl supply it would be great for development and also to have a better say in F1.

Honda will come good. They have been going through a lot of restructuring and long overdue uprades of everything right down the line from road cars to metallurgy. It was a bad start to F1 no denying that, but if a deal can be done to supply 2 teams then 3 later on, development will speed up a lot.

I'm starting to think Ron Dennis was mentally ill the way things went on with this Honda deal. Probably some of the worst decisions in high level F1 ever made.
The power of Red Bull Powertrains!

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RS200E
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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ZakB wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 16:01
Sayeman wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 16:01
ZakB wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 15:59


By fine, do u mean driving around with a crap engine for 4 years in a row?
It's been 3 years not 4...
It will be 4.
At the end of this season it will be 3 seasons McLaren have had the Honda engine.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_MP4-29

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_MP4-30
Last edited by RS200E on 03 Sep 2017, 16:32, edited 1 time in total.
The power of Red Bull Powertrains!

ZakB
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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RS200E wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 16:30
ZakB wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 16:01
Sayeman wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 16:01

It's been 3 years not 4...
It will be 4.
At the end of this season it will be 3 seasons McLaren have had the Honda engine.
I'm talking about 2018.

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RS200E
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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ZakB wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 16:31
RS200E wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 16:30
ZakB wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 16:01


It will be 4.
At the end of this season it will be 3 seasons McLaren have had the Honda engine.
I'm talking about 2018.
Sure.
The power of Red Bull Powertrains!

ZakB
ZakB
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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RS200E wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 16:26
Honda will come good. They have been going through a lot of restructuring and long overdue uprades of everything right down the line from road cars to metallurgy. It was a bad start to F1 no denying that, but if a deal can be done to supply 2 teams then 3 later on, development will speed up a lot.

I'm starting to think Ron Dennis was mentally ill the way things went on with this Honda deal. Probably some of the worst decisions in high level F1 ever made.
Sorry, but how can people still can say Honda will come good? Just look at the MGU-K, that problem still isn't fixed. I also wished the partnership would work out, but there haven't been any signs that it will happen. Don't forget there are only three years left. McLaren simply wants to perform and they no longer have in faith in Honda. They know all the ins and outs, and saying goodbye to all that money shows how dire the situation actually is.

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diffuser
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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ZakB wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 15:29
Before quali

http://i.imgur.com/mVlWVZw.png

After sunday

http://i.imgur.com/tNMFPPA.png
ROFL...FAKE NEWS! 70+ votes VS <20.

ZakB
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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nzjrs
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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ZakB wrote:
03 Sep 2017, 16:47
Sorry, but how can people still can say Honda will come good? Just look at the MGU-K, that problem still isn't fixed. I also wished the partnership would work out, but there haven't been any signs that it will happen. Don't forget there are only three years left. McLaren simply wants to perform and they no longer have in faith in Honda. They know all the ins and outs, and saying goodbye to all that money shows how dire the situation actually is.
You are mistaken. 'All' the problems this year have been MGU-H.