Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Soichiro]

Just watched the 1/3 of the race. VAN had a very good race there. If it wasn't stuck behind KVY, he would be running "close" to RIC up until there. Even the passing from Ferrari and Force India were more down to older tyres. They could not do it on the straight simply from the speed difference.

[loner]

good improvement today and good start from VAN, mgu-k problem is a positive i imagine will need a small fix
thats massive from Australia with the new concept , looking forward for the big step later this year thumbs up.

[ringo]

I think it is likely honda leaves the sport. I dont see why any team would take their engines.
What makes it worse is that small teams like to get an engine and gearbox deal. Honda doesnt gave that luxury like ferrair or mercedes. So i dont expect to see williams or toro rosso switching their supply to benefit mclaren. No team will want the honda engine and that would simply mean they have no place in the sport.
Their performance is frustrating. It doesnt seem like they are moving forward or developing from their experience. It would be hard for mclaren to trust them at this point.

[63l8qrrfy6]

I am sorry to be the one to put on damper on this but really - how can so many of you see improvement where there is none ? Sure there is the odd glimpse of performance but objectively they had 3 DNFs in 2 races after the break (as well as the FP hiccups). At the end of the day the race result is the only meaningful measure and this statistic is just as grim as it was at the start of the season.

As for the switch to Renault - the thing to consider is that Honda have not frozen their design for this year - they are still going through a slow iterative process whereas Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari have already shifted resources towards next season's engine. Even if Honda manages to come close to Renault (which is unlikely) by the end of this year chances are that next season they will be again miles behind.

To be fair any decision would be a bit of a gamble for Mclaren - as they say in chess - in a bad position any move is a bad move. (well except maybe for sacking Alonso, but this is not the right thread for this discussion)

[NL_Fer]

Redbull had no reason for Torro Rosso at the moment also. Ok they want to keep Saintz in for as Max and Dan leave in 2019 and maybe give Gazley a chance. So sell/loan it to Honda could be a good deal.

To be honest the current PU will only last for 3 years and i don't see them putting all that money the current engine. A backmarker like Torro Rosso can give Honda some time to put the development team, dyno, simulators right. Ready to produce 2021' killer engine.

[Rubinhio]

Honda performance has been atrocious this year. Development hasn't been this year what McLaren/Alonso expected. I am sure they expeted at Spa some real evolution, and by evolution I mean revolution, that means to be close to Renault in performance and reliability. Sure they are not. I think it's time for McLaren to move forward. Honda won't catch Renault performance and reliability this year, and next year Renault will be miles ahead again. If Mclaren has lost its faith in Honda it has to be due to a reason and this kind of decision I am sure it has been well thought. If Honda wants to remain in this sport as it seams (by the way it still amazes me they are interested in losing more reputation) , FIA will help to get the deal done with Toro Roso. Of course Toro Roso will be for sure the new Minardi of Formula One for the next years, so I don't get why Honda would be even interested.

Enviado desde mi LG-H815 mediante Tapatalk

[loner]

I am sorry to be the one to put on damper on this but really - how can so many of you see improvement where there is none ? Sure there is the odd glimpse of performance but objectively they had 3 DNFs in 2 races after the break (as well as the FP hiccups). At the end of the day the race result is the only meaningful measure and this statistic is just as grim as it was at the start of the season.

perhaps comparing Ricciardo,kvyat and verstappen pace to Mercedes pre and post Monaco 2016 ( implementing the pre-ignition) ?!! IMHO this the hardest and most beneficial layout to stick with must be patient mercedes developing it for 8 years or something, plus a development in the pipeline for a big step later this year,honestly which team to harvest honda efforts is non of my concern.

[63l8qrrfy6]

I am sorry to be the one to put on damper on this but really - how can so many of you see improvement where there is none ? Sure there is the odd glimpse of performance but objectively they had 3 DNFs in 2 races after the break (as well as the FP hiccups). At the end of the day the race result is the only meaningful measure and this statistic is just as grim as it was at the start of the season.

perhaps comparing Ricciardo,kvyat and verstappen pace to Mercedes pre and post Monaco 2016 ( implementing the pre-ignition) ?!! IMHO this the hardest and most beneficial layout to stick with must be patient mercedes developing it for 8 years or something, plus a development in the pipeline for a big step later this year,honestly which team to harvest honda efforts is non of my concern.

I don't really understand what you are babbling about, what exactly has Mercedes been developing for 8 years ?

[Oscar2603]

I am sorry to be the one to put on damper on this but really - how can so many of you see improvement where there is none ? Sure there is the odd glimpse of performance but objectively they had 3 DNFs in 2 races after the break (as well as the FP hiccups). At the end of the day the race result is the only meaningful measure and this statistic is just as grim as it was at the start of the season.

perhaps comparing Ricciardo,kvyat and verstappen pace to Mercedes pre and post Monaco 2016 ( implementing the pre-ignition) ?!! IMHO this the hardest and most beneficial layout to stick with must be patient mercedes developing it for 8 years or something, plus a development in the pipeline for a big step later this year,honestly which team to harvest honda efforts is non of my concern.

I don't really understand what you are babbling about, what exactly has Mercedes been developing for 8 years ?

Mercedes started developing their V6T Hybrid almost 4 years before it was even implemented. In Ross Brawn's book that came out early this year, he talks about how Mercedes knew it would become very dependent on PU and so they got to work extremely early. That's why it looked like they had 100HP over everyone in 2014, and continued to progress right up until now...

They've been breaking the 1000Bhp barrier since 2016.

[ZakB]

perhaps comparing Ricciardo,kvyat and verstappen pace to Mercedes pre and post Monaco 2016 ( implementing the pre-ignition) ?!! IMHO this the hardest and most beneficial layout to stick with must be patient mercedes developing it for 8 years or something, plus a development in the pipeline for a big step later this year,honestly which team to harvest honda efforts is non of my concern.

I don't really understand what you are babbling about, what exactly has Mercedes been developing for 8 years ?

Mercedes started developing their V6T Hybrid almost 4 years before it was even implemented. In Ross Brawn's book that came out early this year, he talks about how Mercedes knew it would become very dependent on PU and so they got to work extremely early. That's why it looked like they had 100HP over everyone in 2014, and continued to progress right up until now...

They've been breaking the 1000Bhp barrier since 2016.

Who cares, stop making excuses for Honda. They sucked in the first two years and even underestimated the new concept, bunch of amateurs that will never get it right. The MGH-K failed again on the car of Stoffel, the same exact problem he had on Saturday. No power, no reliability, no plan, no nothing.

[PlatinumZealot]

I am sorry to be the one to put on damper on this but really - how can so many of you see improvement where there is none ? Sure there is the odd glimpse of performance but objectively they had 3 DNFs in 2 races after the break (as well as the FP hiccups). At the end of the day the race result is the only meaningful measure and this statistic is just as grim as it was at the start of the season.

As for the switch to Renault - the thing to consider is that Honda have not frozen their design for this year - they are still going through a slow iterative process whereas Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari have already shifted resources towards next season's engine. Even if Honda manages to come close to Renault (which is unlikely) by the end of this year chances are that next season they will be again miles behind.

To be fair any decision would be a bit of a gamble for Mclaren - as they say in chess - in a bad position any move is a bad move. (well except maybe for sacking Alonso, but this is not the right thread for this discussion)

That ia true. In the season was Honda's time to get the engine on par not over the winter. They still have seven races to do so but McLaren's faith has already dwindled. The only thing Honda can poaaible do is buy customer parts from McLaren and run a Haas like team out of Milton keynes.

[zxof]

If I told any of you here right after Australian GP in 2015 that if McLaren honda collected only 11 points by Monza 2017, would any of us be able to call that as a progress for honda in any way back then?

Sure they're making baby steps here and there but in the grand scheme of thing, 11 points in their 3rd season (2.5 years after they started). I am not sure if anyone even at honda can call this as progress.

[Craigy]

If I told any of you here right after Australian GP in 2015 that if McLaren honda collected only 11 points by Monza 2017, would any of us be able to call that as a progress for honda in any way back then?

Sure they're making baby steps here and there but in the grand scheme of thing, 11 points in their 3rd season (2.5 years after they started). I am not sure if anyone even at honda can call this as progress.

This is the technical Honda power unit thread.
There's a specific thread over here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26194 for complaints about Honda's lack of progress and associated complaints.

[wickedz50]

I am sorry to be the one to put on damper on this but really - how can so many of you see improvement where there is none ? Sure there is the odd glimpse of performance but objectively they had 3 DNFs in 2 races after the break (as well as the FP hiccups). At the end of the day the race result is the only meaningful measure and this statistic is just as grim as it was at the start of the season.

As for the switch to Renault - the thing to consider is that Honda have not frozen their design for this year - they are still going through a slow iterative process whereas Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari have already shifted resources towards next season's engine. Even if Honda manages to come close to Renault (which is unlikely) by the end of this year chances are that next season they will be again miles behind.

To be fair any decision would be a bit of a gamble for Mclaren - as they say in chess - in a bad position any move is a bad move. (well except maybe for sacking Alonso, but this is not the right thread for this discussion)

That ia true. In the season was Honda's time to get the engine on par not over the winter. They still have seven races to do so but McLaren's faith has already dwindled. The only thing Honda can poaaible do is buy customer parts from McLaren and run a Haas like team out of Milton keynes.

Sometimes I wonder why Marussia was not bought in by McLaren or Honda to be a test team. That would have been a good choice.

[JonoNic]

Does anyone know what were the least number of manufacturers in a F1 season? Were those season/s any good from an entertainment point of view? How many seasons did they run with such a low number of manufacturers? Just asking because 2021 is a long way off.