Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[godlameroso]

Zak was pretty honest in his interview, as usual, with Brundle and that.
He said they know what the issues with the Honda PU are and there is a couple of them, but they are consistent, there isn't issues scattered all over it, he also believes they can get on top of it but it's a timing thing now, whether they believe they can get it right quickly or not.

He also mentioned something I hadn't heard before... In response to the the question of what the main issue is with the PU:
"It's friction, there's a lot of friction in the engine and as we know, friction is not what you want, that's costing us power, but they are trying very hard to get that sorted and they have developments in the pipeline so we will have to see what they have come up with and take a decision from there".

Interesting point. That's likely the root cause of the vibration issues. If Spec 4 delivers new pistons, CC, heads whatever other internal changes are rumoured, that really could lift their game. Gut feeling here, but I think Spec 4 could rear it's head in Malaysia, ahead of a hopefully stronger showing in Japan (an important home race for Honda and their pride) than last year.

Friction refers to the MGU-H, with the long shaft, mostly?

[GhostF1]

Zak was pretty honest in his interview, as usual, with Brundle and that.
He said they know what the issues with the Honda PU are and there is a couple of them, but they are consistent, there isn't issues scattered all over it, he also believes they can get on top of it but it's a timing thing now, whether they believe they can get it right quickly or not.

He also mentioned something I hadn't heard before... In response to the the question of what the main issue is with the PU:
"It's friction, there's a lot of friction in the engine and as we know, friction is not what you want, that's costing us power, but they are trying very hard to get that sorted and they have developments in the pipeline so we will have to see what they have come up with and take a decision from there".

Interesting point. That's likely the root cause of the vibration issues. If Spec 4 delivers new pistons, CC, heads whatever other internal changes are rumoured, that really could lift their game. Gut feeling here, but I think Spec 4 could rear it's head in Malaysia, ahead of a hopefully stronger showing in Japan (an important home race for Honda and their pride) than last year.

Friction refers to the MGU-H, with the long shaft, mostly?

I initially thought that, with the bearing failures etc, but his wording, mostly "that's what is costing us power"makes me think it's an ICE internal issue. The MGU-H issues were more the fact it didn't last before.

[amho]

Dear Mr.wazari, is it possible for us to know the safety factor that typically is used in designing f1 engines? although it might differ from part to part...

[Wazari]

Dear Mr.wazari, is it possible for us to know the safety factor that typically is used in designing f1 engines? although it might differ from part to part...

That is almost an impossible question to answer as the needle is always moving in that area. You know that a PU has to last XXX amount of KM's during the race plus practice and qualifying. As a ballpark, you set 105 to 110% of that figure as a minimum benchmark for the ICE and slightly more for the other components. However, race conditions are extremely difficult to mimic and everything is a compromise between size, weight, output and durability.

[harjan]

Is friction a design, material or manufacturing process issue?

As for people saying McLaren wouldn't be able to compete with RB- this is exactly what the last 3 yrs have done to the McLaren brand..

McLaren can beat any team on the grid, they're known for their ability to improve during the season more than any other team on the grid.

Pre-Honda McLaren wasn't at its strongest, but that still meant being on the podium/top six.

[etusch]

Is friction a design, material or manufacturing process issue?

As for people saying McLaren wouldn't be able to compete with RB- this is exactly what the last 3 yrs have done to the McLaren brand..

McLaren can beat any team on the grid, they're known for their ability to improve during the season more than any other team on the grid.

Pre-Honda McLaren wasn't at its strongest, but that still meant being on the podium/top six.

Time and teams changed and McLaren can't have good development even in years . Only this year, after bullier had changed organization, they built good car

[GhostF1]

Wazari,

I don't mean to overstep a line and request information I am not entitled to, but is it within the realms of possibility you could shed some light on the friction claims by Zak Brown?
Is it in reference to the MGU-H or is friction an area within the ICE that is has ongoing development?

By the way, I haven't personally said this to you as others have, but thank you for sharing what you have done in the past. As a diehard fan, it's really appreciated!

[63l8qrrfy6]

He also mentioned something I hadn't heard before... In response to the the question of what the main issue is with the PU:
"It's friction, there's a lot of friction in the engine and as we know, friction is not what you want, that's costing us power, but they are trying very hard to get that sorted and they have developments in the pipeline so we will have to see what they have come up with and take a decision from there".

Interesting point. That's likely the root cause of the vibration issues. If Spec 4 delivers new pistons, CC, heads whatever other internal changes are rumoured, that really could lift their game. Gut feeling here, but I think Spec 4 could rear it's head in Malaysia, ahead of a hopefully stronger showing in Japan (an important home race for Honda and their pride) than last year.

How is friction the root cause?
Friction leads to energy dissipation as heat - if anything it would help dampen vibration.

[bigblue]

How is friction the root cause?
Friction leads to energy dissipation as heat - if anything it would help dampen vibration.

I invoke common sense rather than thermodynamics, if you're trying to rotate something, or push it up and down (or whatever), and it sticks intermittently or at some point of its travel, you're going to encounter a bunch of unexpected stresses / forces in the whole system, and also lose energy to overcome the stickiness. Something may then break. Eventually this translates into an angry Spanish man shouting "no power ! NO POWER !".

[maguetox]

Zak was pretty honest in his interview, as usual, with Brundle and that.
He said they know what the issues with the Honda PU are and there is a couple of them, but they are consistent, there isn't issues scattered all over it, he also believes they can get on top of it but it's a timing thing now, whether they believe they can get it right quickly or not.

He also mentioned something I hadn't heard before... In response to the the question of what the main issue is with the PU:
"It's friction, there's a lot of friction in the engine and as we know, friction is not what you want, that's costing us power, but they are trying very hard to get that sorted and they have developments in the pipeline so we will have to see what they have come up with and take a decision from there".

Interesting point. That's likely the root cause of the vibration issues. If Spec 4 delivers new pistons, CC, heads whatever other internal changes are rumoured, that really could lift their game. Gut feeling here, but I think Spec 4 could rear it's head in Malaysia, ahead of a hopefully stronger showing in Japan (an important home race for Honda and their pride) than last year.

Friction refers to the MGU-H, with the long shaft, mostly?

This piece of information is gold to my simple knowledge. In F1 the size matters, in this case the size of the logo matters and a lot. We need to remember that BP enters to work with Honda at the end of last season, after a real close, almost exclusive relationship with Mobil.

BP or Castrol have more time working with Renault and I bet the fuel and lubricants are developed to Renault specs, meanwhile I think Honda is receiving "customer" fuel and lubricants.

So if we considered this year that Honda have a new PU design and we add a new fuel and lubricant partner, which, by the size and prominence of their logo, is not where they have most of their resources, I think Honda have been battling with a task that is almost impossible to sorts out faster than they want.

[dren]

So if friction is an issue,it really surprises me, especially if it is one of the main reasons for the gap in power.

As Wazari has stated, ERS control is an area for improvement. That makes more sense to me. It also correlates to Alonso being able to set fast laps in between slower ones.

There was talk during the preseason about a 'trick' crank design being used. I wonder if the main bearings are an area of higher friction by design. I would think if that's the case, the shorter block design would have to outweigh the higher losses.

It could be that all of the components need to be refined in their design and interaction to improve mechanical losses. Whatever BP is supplying as lube oil might need some improvements, too.

[63l8qrrfy6]

How is friction the root cause?
Friction leads to energy dissipation as heat - if anything it would help dampen vibration.

I invoke common sense rather than thermodynamics, if you're trying to rotate something, or push it up and down (or whatever), and it sticks intermittently or at some point of its travel, you're going to encounter a bunch of unexpected stresses / forces in the whole system, and also lose energy to overcome the stickiness. Something may then break. Eventually this translates into an angry Spanish man shouting "no power ! NO POWER !".

If something is chattering to such an extent that it excites a natural frequency I would say it was already broken before the engine started turning

[OviJohn]

Zak was pretty honest in his interview, as usual, with Brundle and that.
He said they know what the issues with the Honda PU are and there is a couple of them, but they are consistent, there isn't issues scattered all over it, he also believes they can get on top of it but it's a timing thing now, whether they believe they can get it right quickly or not.

He also mentioned something I hadn't heard before... In response to the the question of what the main issue is with the PU:
"It's friction, there's a lot of friction in the engine and as we know, friction is not what you want, that's costing us power, but they are trying very hard to get that sorted and they have developments in the pipeline so we will have to see what they have come up with and take a decision from there".

Interesting point. That's likely the root cause of the vibration issues. If Spec 4 delivers new pistons, CC, heads whatever other internal changes are rumoured, that really could lift their game. Gut feeling here, but I think Spec 4 could rear it's head in Malaysia, ahead of a hopefully stronger showing in Japan (an important home race for Honda and their pride) than last year.

Friction refers to the MGU-H, with the long shaft, mostly?

This piece of information is gold to my simple knowledge. In F1 the size matters, in this case the size of the logo matters and a lot. We need to remember that BP enters to work with Honda at the end of last season, after a real close, almost exclusive relationship with Mobil.

BP or Castrol have more time working with Renault and I bet the fuel and lubricants are developed to Renault specs, meanwhile I think Honda is receiving "customer" fuel and lubricants.

So if we considered this year that Honda have a new PU design and we add a new fuel and lubricant partner, which, by the size and prominence of their logo, is not where they have most of their resources, I think Honda have been battling with a task that is almost impossible to sorts out faster than they want.

Good remark; but lets also remember that when the news about BP replacing Mobil, and fears about how this change could affect Honda, Wazari mentioned something along the lines "that not always what you see on the car logo is whats inside..."

I also recall people stating that it BP/Castrol, having worked along Honda for many years in other categories wouldnt be a factor of concern. Maybe Mclaren-Honda also understimated this?

[bill shoe]

Re: McLaren chassis development during the season, and McLaren chassis improvement from season to season.

Starting in 2015, McLaren has lost most or all of pre-season testing to powertrain problems. Then the first several races of the year are spent desperately nursing the powertrain around circuits at much reduced pace. Later in the season when the powertrain is sorta-competitive for power it still blows up frequently. Every race weekend for McLaren is an exercise in managing current and future grid-penalties for powertrain replacements.

The powertrain has had a massive influence on McLaren's ability to develop the chassis!!! If McLaren are still producing halfway competent chassis then it's an amazing accomplishment, both in terms of technical ability and human resilience/motivation. The powertrain has been a daily crotch-kick for McLaren chassis people for the last two or three years! Yes the powertrain matters to chassis development!

[toraabe]

Is friction a design, material or manufacturing process issue?

As for people saying McLaren wouldn't be able to compete with RB- this is exactly what the last 3 yrs have done to the McLaren brand..

McLaren can beat any team on the grid, they're known for their ability to improve during the season more than any other team on the grid.

Pre-Honda McLaren wasn't at its strongest, but that still meant being on the podium/top six.

First of all they need to lower their shifting points so they will shift at 11500 as the others are doing. Increased RPM increases the inner friction of the ICE.