2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[ZakB]

"Like I said before, the successful period end 80's was a exception, Honda failed badly in every other era."

Although most of the time you do make sense, now you don't. They weren't always sucessful, but they were most of the time. In any category they tried. Google a bit moto racing. Which company has most titles in MotoGP/500cc class? In Moto2/250cc? In Moto3/125cc?

I'm of course talking about F1.

[diffuser]

When Honda stipulated for Alonso to be signed by Mclaren, liitle did they know it would be Alonso who would be a major player in forcing them out of F1...Ahh the irony..Sad but kinda funny.
All those end of the year "Thank you" programs for Alonso didnt do much good it seems.

Alonso has gone on the record that he doesn't care who the PU SUPPLIER is, just wants it to be competitive.

[jonas_linder]

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opini ... gine-chase

McLaren’s is very much to split with Honda after three disastrous seasons. It has simply lost the faith.

If someone in F1 is guided by faith, he is doomed. Can these guys think rational?

Interesting no one read the quote by Prost:

“We are open to the idea of supplying either Toro Rosso or McLaren,” said Renault special advisor Alain Prost at Monza, “but it is impossible for us to supply both. Also, I would point out that we do not expect to be able to supply a winning engine as early as next year and for a driver of Fernando Alonso’s stature, that might be a problem.”

[McMika98]

Last two races have shown that in Qualy the 3.7 engine is as fast as Renault, so peak power is comparable. Only in race mode they fall behind but not far off.

Mercedes have themselves said that the new engines have similar peak power but can run in higher modes for longer allowing them to go faster in race.

Id expext spec 4 to push it ahead of Renault and near Ferrari.

[Far]

McLaren-Honda should swap engine with Williams - Mercedes they have worked in the 80 and this deal will be better for both parties.

[Andres125sx]

As I already said I think Alo is one of the best or maybe the best driver today. I aldo do like Alo with all his outbursts and sunbathing, he is making F1 more colourful.
But isn't that the guy who said something like Ferrari is the best team he has ever been in and he is sure he ll drive there until end of his career?

So if he says something like this, he´s criticized because he said it previously, and if he does not say something like this, he´s criticized because of not being a team player...

[Andres125sx]

We haven't seen anyone getting on the level of Mercedes, but you expect that Honda will create something that is better than them in three years time? You're calling others a fanboy, but I would call you delusional.

Nope, I´m not expecting that, far from that, I never said that. But they don´t need to be better or match Mercedes to be a better option than a Renault PU as a customer team. I´d prefer a Honda PU with works team status at similar level of perfomance to Renault, than a Renault PU as another customer at the same time to RBR

Do you think matching Renault perfomance and reliability is delusional?

At this point, yes.

Then let´s agree to disagree

I´ve never said Honda is a great option, but in my eyes Renault is even worse, far from top perfomance, far from top reliability, impossible to get works team status, and instead of receiving a bunch of money, they´d have to pay for that far from top PU.

Even when Honda is not accomplishing targets, they still are a better option

[etusch]

We can not consider everything, everything will be same next year too. I believe Renault and Honda will be better. The question is which one will be better. If both will be same power next year, working with Honda will be better choice.
At this situation if I were Honda, I would choose to work with Toro Rosso, I would give 3.7 to McLaren and completely concentrate on 2018 PU

[JonoNic]

McLaren-Honda should swap engine with Williams - Mercedes they have worked in the 80 and this deal will be better for both parties.

Posters on this forum has mentioned that Mclaren may succeed Mercedes as their works team if and when they leave. Why would Mercedes deny their PUs to this successor then? You literally want Williams to make the same decision as Mclaren in 2013/4.

[sasa.nikolic]

As I already said I think Alo is one of the best or maybe the best driver today. I aldo do like Alo with all his outbursts and sunbathing, he is making F1 more colourful.
But isn't that the guy who said something like Ferrari is the best team he has ever been in and he is sure he ll drive there until end of his career?

So if he says something like this, he´s criticized because he said it previously, and if he does not say something like this, he´s criticized because of not being a team player...

You misunderstood my point. This wasn't Alo bashing, but proof that Mcl doesn't necessarily have to be the best team he has ever driven for. Remember 2007 when he was paired with same category driver, although rookie.
I don't want to get into argument about Alo, he is F1 great no doubt, but has hi's flaws. As they/we all do. This is team topic not driver.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Phil]

McLaren-Honda should swap engine with Williams - Mercedes they have worked in the 80 and this deal will be better for both parties.

Posters on this forum has mentioned that Mclaren may succeed Mercedes as their works team if and when they leave. Why would Mercedes deny their PUs to this successor then? You literally want Williams to make the same decision as Mclaren in 2013/4.

Because maybe Mercedes is less certain about leaving, but only using their position (as is Ferrari) to negotiate a better deal for them with the new owners of F1 and beyond 2020. It's all about the price money, the payouts and of course the engines. The engine manufacturers want more control of the engine because that is where their strength lies to influence the outcome of the championship, their success and image-exposure.

It's gonna be interesting, because the old agreemens are coming to an end and now there's a new owner in town who perhaps is more happy to create a healthy, fairer and bigger sport for all, rather than the ex-owner who was more in the business of milking the sport and keeping its historic players with the most power happy.

So I guess Mercedes, among others like Ferrari, want to keep their options open before committing to see where the sport is heading. Sooner or later, Formula-E will be the new star on the horizon. While it's still very amateurish, it's setting the right points in the media and getting the car companies the right kind of exposure (green-technology, hi-tech etc).

[JonoNic]

Good point @Phil

[Chuckjr]

One positive to consider if McLaren go with Renault is we as fans will get a perfect comparison of the Red Bull vs. McLaren chassis. To me personally, and I assume many others, that alone would bring huge interest each race weekend and set up almost a second championship to watch. It would really expose the Macca chassis for the first time in years.

Lots of positives to consider looking at it from a purely competition standpoint in 2018.

[Vasconia]

Even when Honda is not accomplishing targets, they still are a better option

At this point its not. The performance has been so bad that its not acceptable anymore. Honda could close some mouths if its 2018 PU is good but lets face the reality, nothing leads to think that this will happen.

The McLaren-Renault has cleary its bad aspects but one thing is clear. McLaren must be pretty sure that their relation with Honda has no future if they have decided to make this step. They have much more information than us so I guess they must have a more complete picture of the hole situation.

[Phil]

Maybe that's just what you get for trying "all or nothing"...

I personally prefer the approach Renault is taking (with their factory team):

Slow iterative steps, small improvements, steadily clinbing that ladder one by one.

The McLaren-Honda situation reminds me somewhat of RedBull in 2014. High level of frustration, demands of better performance, the car having way more trouble with reliabilty than i.e. their own sister team running the same engine, but perhaps with a less tight package running to the bear limit.

On one hand, i'd love to see McLaren switch to Renault, just to see if things would be better next year and how they'd stack up against other teams with Renault engine. Abd if not too well, what their attitude (as well as Alonsos) would be. If it'd be similar, i could definately see it as one of the last nails in the coffin. Finding sponsors would be more difficult despite perhaps more consistent races and they'd be without the fincial arm of Honda and without a works partnership.