2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[RS200E]

Wow some of the comments from the last pages reads like a fantasy novel.

"McLaren have to share the blame"

No they do not. Honda (the mighty engine manufacturer and previous F1 works team) agreed with mclaren to make the size zero engine. They said they could. It's as simple as that. If anything Honda are even more to blame for not letting McLaren or another outside source help them out.


"Honda will be as good as Renault by the end of the year"

Laughable really. Spec 4? Going to need a further 100 specs because Renault aren't standing still either. It's not STR that's the benchmark, it's RBR and probably pretty soon Renault works team.

Blame game and the miracle spec 4 aside, McLaren need to get the medium term to long term sorted contract wise because in the short term they are still F'd. Fans are going to have to deal with that instead of resorting to acting like brats.

[loner]

26 June 2017

Claire Williams insists "we are not a cause of the break-up"

[Andres125sx]

Even when Honda is not accomplishing targets, they still are a better option

At this point its not. The performance has been so bad that its not acceptable anymore. Honda could close some mouths if its 2018 PU is good but lets face the reality, nothing leads to think that this will happen.

Sorry but disagree. We´re talking about Honda, not Dacia. Honda cannot allow this disaster, plain and simple, so even when we fans are tired, bored, depressed and some even angry, we all are happy campers when compared to Honda people. I can´t imagine the pressure there must be inside Sakura.

Honda has redesigned their PU completely, they said theirselves that was a very risky movement (something people tend to ignore so they can say Honda has no clue about what they´re doing), but accepted that risk to be able to fight for victories and titles in the future. If they would be happy as a midfielder, they would be using 2016 concept yet. It was good enough to score exactly double point than 2015 and 2017 season togheter, so it was not that bad, but since their target is winning, they threw that PU to the trash and started from scratch


If you assume they´re not stupid, 2018 should be their best season. 2017 problems were predictable and they actually warned everyone about that BEFORE hitting the track, so it´s not that Honda was expecting to win races this year and they performed this poorly, it was Honda who said this season would be difficult but that was one step back to be able to make three steps forward

[marmer]

There is nothing wrong with dacia they don't brake down like honda lol

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[Soichiro]

There is nothing wrong with dacia they don't brake down like honda lol

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They also don't compete in F1 .

@RS200E
"It's not STR that's the benchmark, it's RBR and probably pretty soon Renault works team."

And how does McLaren compare to RBR? Can you provide some data on that topic? What do you think the difference would be between McLaren and RBR if they ran the same Renault engine? What have you included in that comparison (power, power curve, torque curve, weight, size, consumption efficiency,...) and how does each compare?

Just asking, because we cannot compare Honda to RBR. But we can sort of get a glimpse on progress made by them when comparing McHonda to other Renault powered teams and as opposed to the latest races, McHonda was a better racer than STR and Renault - that is at Monza! We don't know how far Honda is behind Renault and I don't believe is that far off since the introduction of spec 3.7, probably another gain like 3 --> 3.7 would more or less close the gap (given the reliability is fixed of course).

[NathanOlder]

When Honda stipulated for Alonso to be signed by Mclaren, liitle did they know it would be Alonso who would be a major player in forcing them out of F1...Ahh the irony..Sad but kinda funny.
All those end of the year "Thank you" programs for Alonso didnt do much good it seems.

If Honda really do pay Alonso's wages, do you think if Alonso drives Honda out that he will drive for free ?

[Soichiro]

...If anything Honda are even more to blame for not letting McLaren or another outside source help them out.

By repeating a lie for 24 times or more, it just does not become the truth. Read the quotes from Hasegawa (had to explain it over and over again) on that subject.

[914hald]

https://twitter.com/alanbaldwinf1/statu ... 5744505856

[ZakB]

Even when Honda is not accomplishing targets, they still are a better option

At this point its not. The performance has been so bad that its not acceptable anymore. Honda could close some mouths if its 2018 PU is good but lets face the reality, nothing leads to think that this will happen.

Sorry but disagree. We´re talking about Honda, not Dacia. Honda cannot allow this disaster, plain and simple, so even when we fans are tired, bored, depressed and some even angry, we all are happy campers when compared to Honda people. I can´t imagine the pressure there must be inside Sakura.

Honda has redesigned their PU completely, they said theirselves that was a very risky movement (something people tend to ignore so they can say Honda has no clue about what they´re doing), but accepted that risk to be able to fight for victories and titles in the future. If they would be happy as a midfielder, they would be using 2016 concept yet. It was good enough to score exactly double point than 2015 and 2017 season togheter, so it was not that bad, but since their target is winning, they threw that PU to the trash and started from scratch


If you assume they´re not stupid, 2018 should be their best season. 2017 problems were predictable and they actually warned everyone about that BEFORE hitting the track, so it´s not that Honda was expecting to win races this year and they performed this poorly, it was Honda who said this season would be difficult but that was one step back to be able to make three steps forward

I assume they're stupid. Just look at the history, their succes in F1 was an exception, in all the other era's they failed miserably. I can repeat the same thing over and over: less budget, no knowhow from other engine programs, wrong location, no leadership, no power, no reliability, missed every single target and you guys still want Honda? McLaren saying good bye to their this money says it all really, they are dealing with the worst amateurs the sport have seen in the last 10 years. They already knew about their problems in december, it's now September and they are still nowhere. How could do also underestimate this engine for the third year in a row, I would imagine Honda would have done everything, including signing staff from Mercedes, McLaren to Renault.

OK guys, forgive me if I am annoying, but again I will bring the issue with very strange race strategy of Vandoorn at Monza. Until their respective first pit stops, Vandoorn has gaining on average per lap 0.18 sec to Hulkenberg, 0.4 sec to Saintz, 0.08 sec to Kvyat, 0.05 sec to Magnussen (source here: http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page=results&gp=989 ). After their pit stops he has loosing until his retirement 0.41, 0.49, 0.77, 0.42 per lap respectively to these drivers. I can't imagine that this is a normal race strategy. It seems to me that McLaren didn't want to show unexpected boost in performance at Monza because this would ruined their case that they have lost faith in Honda. The same could be said about the their strange choice to run tin aero at Spa in this way killing their only sure advantage in the chassis. IMO for some reason they already have taken decision to split with Honda before the summer brake, and they did everything in their competence to make sure that this will happen. The retirements because of the engine (what about the Alonso case in Spa) were just a bonus. Tell me where I am wrong.

I suggest you stop watching movies.

[OviJohn]

Good old Pat Fry joins the "nutcases" bandwagon tonight on Sky F1 Report!

Heres a preview: "

"It's a corporate decision," Fry told the F1 Report, which airs on Wednesday night at 8.30pm on Sky Sports F1. "All of the engineers will be saying, 'dump it and run - we'll have more MGU-H recovery, more horsepower and lap time is going to be half a second quicker if we go with Renault.'

"They'll know all that from simulation. They're engineers, it's what we do."

But Fry, who enjoyed a 16-year career with McLaren before joining Ferrari in 2010, also admitted it was a complicated affair with several other parties involved.

"The first step was always going to be a struggle for Honda, but it is surprising how little progress there has been over three years," he added.

Stay tuned tonight folks!

Source: http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... nd-renault

[ZakB]

Good old Pat Fry joins the "nutcases" bandwagon tonight on Sky F1 Report!

Heres a preview: "

"It's a corporate decision," Fry told the F1 Report, which airs on Wednesday night at 8.30pm on Sky Sports F1. "All of the engineers will be saying, 'dump it and run - we'll have more MGU-H recovery, more horsepower and lap time is going to be half a second quicker if we go with Renault.'

"They'll know all that from simulation. They're engineers, it's what we do."

But Fry, who enjoyed a 16-year career with McLaren before joining Ferrari in 2010, also admitted it was a complicated affair with several other parties involved.

"The first step was always going to be a struggle for Honda, but it is surprising how little progress there has been over three years," he added.

Stay tuned tonight folks!

Source: http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... nd-renault

McLaren boss Zak Brown told Sky Sports it is "one of the biggest decisions we have ever had to make" - but Sky F1's Priestley believes it ultimately should be an easy call.

"For me, the relationship has broken down too far with McLaren and Honda behind the scenes, beyond the point of no return," the former McLaren mechanic said. "It has got so bad - just get a divorce.

"How many years can Honda keep promising McLaren results and fail to deliver?"

[Mad]

@ZakB, whats you problem man? You hate Honda? Hate their culture or something? Because this last 3-4 months it's been a endless tirade from you in the forum against Honda and everything/everyone that is connected to Honda. Not only people have become impervious to your opinion, people are actually getting fed up, hell all i am seeing in the last 3-4 pages is ur constant moaning about Honda.

Calling Honda engineers stupid, what are trying to prove? You know better than them, is that it? You DA Expert?

I was actually feeling sorry for Mclaren and Alonso these last few years but the attitude displayed by Mclaren/Alonso and their fanbase these last few months makes me realize that they got exactly what they deserved. No sympathy from me anymore. You reap what you sow.

[j.yank]

I suggest you stop watching movies.

I suggest you start watching races.

[ZakB]

@ZakB, whats you problem man? You hate Honda? Hate their culture or something? Because this last 3-4 months it's been a endless tirade from you in the forum against Honda and everything/everyone that is connected to Honda. Not only people have become impervious to your opinion, people are actually getting fed up, hell all i am seeing in the last 3-4 pages is ur constant moaning about Honda.

Calling Honda engineers stupid, what are trying to prove? You know better than them, is that it? You DA Expert?

I was actually feeling sorry for Mclaren and Alonso these last few years but the attitude displayed by Mclaren/Alonso and their fanbase these last few months makes me realize that they got exactly what they deserved. No sympathy from me anymore. You reap what you sow.

I only see endless tirades why McLaren should stick with Honda and I vent my own opinion, which isn't appreciated by the Honda boys in here. I'm not here to be liked by anyone. It's also not my job to developed engines, although I'm quite sure I would have run this project better than Honda, which shouldn't be too hard. I also don't hate Honda, because I actually wished things would have worked out.

I suggest you stop watching movies.

I suggest you start watching races.

I did, one decent race so far. Great job after three years, keep them points coming.

[Schuttelberg]

[...]

Your second point about McLaren and Alonso is your opinion and it's your right whether you feel sorry for them or not. But your comments on the McLaren fans is way out of line. Fans have a right to express themselves and even be critical. They're what makes these teams so successful and the sport actually exist. If you think McLaren fans are bad, have a look at the most iconic team's fans when the sea is rough. If anything, McLaren fans are perhaps the most knowledgable and level headed ones. I definitely don't agree with you that they deserve this. One of my mates who I often watch races with is an ardent McLaren fan for 21 years and knowing all too well that they aren't going to be setting the world alight this year, he still watches every lap with me. That's just passion and love for a team! He doesn't deserve to see his favourite team languish around the bottom. But he knows it's a phase. These are the times that make the triumphant ones worth it.

Let's not involve fans and their behaviour. It's part and parcel of sport and in this case you were not justified at all with your comments.