Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[j.yank]

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Honda introduced the specification 3.7 of its power unit in the McL32 in Monza. An improvement that Hasegawa confirms has boosted the horsepower of the propeller and that is centered in the turbocharger: "The point of improvement of the engine 3.7 is the turbocharger. The internal combustion engine is the same as version 3.6, but the maximum power is increases slightly due to the effect of this improvement.In several places, the expectation value is as specification 4 ".

In addition to the development in the turbocharger and the torque of the engine at low speed, he responsible for Honda in Formula 1 ensures that at Spa Francorchamps premiered a motor map for the classification that allows them to match the power of Renault: "During the test post race in Hungary we collected data that allowed us to launch a classification engine map in Belgium . Like Mercedes, it can only be used temporarily due to the overload that is submitted to the combustion engine, but can reach a power of up to 20 kW (26 hp) that allows us to match the same level as Renault . In Sakura resistance tests have been performed and it is being understood how much time can be used in the race. "

https://as.com/motor/2017/09/06/formula ... 69746.html

Well, if their level were at Renault but still lagging behind RdBull in qualifications, it means that McLaren chassis isn't too good.

[godlameroso]

Clues...

Wazari in his post stated "I knew it"

Wazari's consulting area is CC and Turbocharging.

HRD bosses didn't pick his teams CC design(because of weight).

Where is Honda's major problem(clue CC).

My guess the friction is in the heads.

The MGU-H is part cast into the head isn't it? The bearings for the shaft must be somewhere in there as well. Aside from that what else is in the head regarding friction the valve train? Fuel pump? Oil pump? Valves, camshafts, timing gears, pneumatic system?

[HPD]

More about updates

In addition to the development in the turbocharger and the torque of the engine at low speed, he responsible for Honda in Formula 1 ensures that at Spa Francorchamps premiered a motor map for the classification that allows them to match the power of Renault: "During the test post race in Hungary we collected data that allowed us to launch a classification engine map in Belgium . Like Mercedes, it can only be used temporarily due to the overload that is submitted to the combustion engine, but can reach a power of up to 20 kW (26 hp) that allows us to match the same level as Renault . In Sakura resistance tests have been performed and it is being understood how much time can be used in the race. "

https://as.com/motor/2017/09/06/formula ... 69746.html

Well, if their level were at Renault but still lagging behind RdBull in qualifications, it means that McLaren chassis isn't too good.

The news is from Sportiva (from Japan). It does not contain any official quote from Hasegawa, it seems a comment. I'm not sure

さらにハンガリーGP後のテストでデータ収集を行ない、煮詰めた”予選モード”の制御マッピングをベルギーGPから実戦投入。メルセデスAMGが使っているのと同じように、ICEに負荷がかかるため一時的にしか使用できないが20kW近いパワーアップを果たすことができる。つまり、一時的とはいえルノー製パワーユニットと同等のレベルになるのだ。「HRD Sakura」では耐久テストが行なわれ、決勝でもどれだけ使うことができるのか把握が進んでいる。

In addition, we collected data on the test after the Hungarian GP and put control mapping of boiled "qualifying mode" from the Belgian Grand Prix. Just as it is used by Mercedes AMG, it can only be used temporarily because of the load on the ICE, but it can achieve power up close to 20 kW. In other words, it is temporary but it is at the same level as the Renault power unit. In "HRD Sakura" endurance tests have been conducted, and it is being understood how much can be used in the final.
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/mot ... ndex_2.php

[NL_Fer]

Remember these are 4 bar boosted, 1:18 compression ratio, ultralean (lamba 2.6) engines. There are very high pressures in those cilinders, the valves has te overwin.

[alexa]

More about updates

Honda introduced the specification 3.7 of its power unit in the McL32 in Monza. An improvement that Hasegawa confirms has boosted the horsepower of the propeller and that is centered in the turbocharger: "The point of improvement of the engine 3.7 is the turbocharger. The internal combustion engine is the same as version 3.6, but the maximum power is increases slightly due to the effect of this improvement.In several places, the expectation value is as specification 4 ".

In addition to the development in the turbocharger and the torque of the engine at low speed, he responsible for Honda in Formula 1 ensures that at Spa Francorchamps premiered a motor map for the classification that allows them to match the power of Renault: "During the test post race in Hungary we collected data that allowed us to launch a classification engine map in Belgium . Like Mercedes, it can only be used temporarily due to the overload that is submitted to the combustion engine, but can reach a power of up to 20 kW (26 hp) that allows us to match the same level as Renault . In Sakura resistance tests have been performed and it is being understood how much time can be used in the race. "

https://as.com/motor/2017/09/06/formula ... 69746.html

Well, if their level were at Renault but still lagging behind RdBull in qualifications, it means that McLaren chassis isn't too good.

Nowhere near to RB, ,I wonder what will be excuse when they have Renault .PU?
MC should sucked up they pride ,stick with Honda and be works team, ,because Honda will catch Ren. real soon,unfortunately it will probably be too late to save the deal.
I can't believe that after going this far,they decided to cancel the partnership.If they where so impatient,then why they didn't do that last year,they knew very well that Honda will go from scratch with new concept.

[ZakB]

More about updates

Honda introduced the specification 3.7 of its power unit in the McL32 in Monza. An improvement that Hasegawa confirms has boosted the horsepower of the propeller and that is centered in the turbocharger: "The point of improvement of the engine 3.7 is the turbocharger. The internal combustion engine is the same as version 3.6, but the maximum power is increases slightly due to the effect of this improvement.In several places, the expectation value is as specification 4 ".

In addition to the development in the turbocharger and the torque of the engine at low speed, he responsible for Honda in Formula 1 ensures that at Spa Francorchamps premiered a motor map for the classification that allows them to match the power of Renault: "During the test post race in Hungary we collected data that allowed us to launch a classification engine map in Belgium . Like Mercedes, it can only be used temporarily due to the overload that is submitted to the combustion engine, but can reach a power of up to 20 kW (26 hp) that allows us to match the same level as Renault . In Sakura resistance tests have been performed and it is being understood how much time can be used in the race. "

https://as.com/motor/2017/09/06/formula ... 69746.html

Well, if their level were at Renault but still lagging behind RdBull in qualifications, it means that McLaren chassis isn't too good.

They are only talking about the ICE.

[ollandos]

More about updates



https://as.com/motor/2017/09/06/formula ... 69746.html

Well, if their level were at Renault but still lagging behind RdBull in qualifications, it means that McLaren chassis isn't too good.

They are only talking about the ICE.

they are only talking about quali extra map ....the honda magic button with 26hp like renault ...probably 2 others have more power for quali mode......albert fabrega have post about this before monza

[ollandos]

honda is -60hp from renault and 30-40 more from ferrari-mercedes ...if have a desing and quaranty to find this 60hp before the end of the year and after than the ideas for closer gap from others 2 for 2018 mclaren have no reason for change ...if honda doesnt have something big any trying ....mclaren choose renault ....we will see next weeks

[Wazari]

They are only talking about the ICE.

No they are not.

[tom101]

seems to me that the divorce is already done

[loner]

seems to me that the divorce is already done

yeah why can't we assume the divorce already happened before the summer break !!

[MrPotatoHead]

They run higher fuel pressures with mechanical fuel pumps - those consume more power and cause more friction.
Geartrains potentially see higher loads and require larger bearings.

With the current cylinder pressures and the new oil consumption limits I would not be surprised if teams ran scraper rings. These require higher tension as they typically see lower energizing pressures.

Pneumatic valve pressures are likely lower as the speed has decreased therefore seal preload should be lower than V8s.
Exhaust valves open against higher pressures so camshaft radial loads have gone up and so have cam bearing and finger friction.

The valve "spring" pressure will likely be around the same as the v8 engines, if not higher, as the backside of the valve now has to resist the charge pressure pushing down trying to open the valves. You always have to increase valve spring pressure on a turbo engine.

Friction should be somewhat lower when compared apples to apples to the v8 engines because of the reduced rpm.

I wouldn't read too much into the friction comment.
There are 3 efficiencies in regards to the ICE:
Thermal Efficiency
Volumetric Efficiency
Mechanical Efficiency

The friction component of the Mechanical Efficiency is the smallest of the losses in an engine.
In these engines it "should" be around 5%. I would be socked if Honda were more than 1 or 2% away from where they need to be. Of course maybe things really are that bad!

[MrPotatoHead]

seems to me that the divorce is already done

yeah why can't we assume the divorce already happened before the summer break !!

It didn't.

[MrPotatoHead]

They are only talking about the ICE.

It's almost impossible to "only" talk about the ICE on these power units. It is never that simple - especially in "qualifying mode"

[MrPotatoHead]

If you aren't sure where friction sits in the grand scheme of things I highly recommend watching this video on Nascar engines.
Now before anyone rolls their eyes if you aren't aware the efficiency of Nascar engines is almost even with that of the V8 / V10 F1 engines so you can learn a LOT from this presentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBZCnG1HwDM