Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[taperoo2k]

It's almost impossible to "only" talk about the ICE on these power units. It is never that simple - especially in "qualifying mode"

So they feel that they are only 25BHP short of beating Renault? If that was actually the case, McLaren wouldn't consider switching.

It's not just about max power output. Fuel efficiency, reliability, power delivery , deployment.Every single time I see the max power output number thrown around it makes me roll my eyes.

I'm a bit tired of seeing people talk about Horse power as if that's the defining feature of a PU. The fundamentals of these hybrid power units are Fuel Efficiency, ERS and Deployment. Get any of those wrong and you are in trouble.

Not sure if this is the right thread for it, but an interesting article about Honda trying to get it's engineering mojo back - http://www.reuters.com/investigates/spe ... nnovation/

[HPD]

It seems Mclaren is not going to give the gearbox to Honda.

CHRISTIAN HORNER: “It doesn’t directly affect us. It’s much more of a Toro Rosso issue as they’ll have to design a car and a gearbox around that power unit if they decide to go down that route for next year.

[Zynerji]

I thought the front and rear mounting points on the engines were in spec locations to allow easier interchange?

Shouldn't the RBR gearbox casing mounts match up at least? Then shouldn't it just be changing the dampening characteristics of the internals to match the torque shock loads of the Honda? I know it's not easy, but RBR should be able to sort that in a few weeks, surely?

[PlatinumZealot]

The gearboxes will fit and the engine will bolt to the chassis. The other stuff can be bitched up to work.. Just as Mclaren fitted a honda engine in 2014 to a chassis design for MERCEDES engine. The problem is you will have a severely unoptimised or even compromised chassis setup. Bitching up the side pods cltuch and rear end when the other guy's stuff is as tightly packaged as a transvestite's trousers is how you lose speed.

[gruntguru]

It is a very real problem. Build some high PR turbo engines and you can run into it. It is has been seen on engine dynos using measuring equipment monitoring the valvetrain.

The problem is more about controlling the valve during the opening and closing events.

To be more specific, I would think exhaust opening (high opening force so not a "float" event) and inlet closing (a potential "valve float" event).

[Andres125sx]

@AlbertFabrega Ayer hablamos d la quema d aceite en los motores d F1. Qué és y q ha pasado? https://t.co/tFTtIYLLAT

Link to Tweet: https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 6284916736
explains the tricks of burning oil in the engine
En español

Very interesting, thank you

So there are some special valves wich allow oil transfer between the low and high parts of the engine

[lio007]

@AlbertFabrega Ayer hablamos d la quema d aceite en los motores d F1. Qué és y q ha pasado? https://t.co/tFTtIYLLAT

Link to Tweet: https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 6284916736
explains the tricks of burning oil in the engine
En español

Very interesting, thank you

So there are some special valves wich allow oil transfer between the low and high parts of the engine

Unfortunately I don't understand spanish. Why has there been 1.2kg x 100 on the slides? I thought it'd be 1.2 liter per 100km!?

BTW: I don't think this topic is really associated with the Honda PU, isn't it? Or are there any special comments on Honda in the video?

[J.A.W.]

@AlbertFabrega Ayer hablamos d la quema d aceite en los motores d F1. Qué és y q ha pasado? https://t.co/tFTtIYLLAT

Link to Tweet: https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 6284916736
explains the tricks of burning oil in the engine
En español

Very interesting, thank you

So there are some special valves wich allow oil transfer between the low and high parts of the engine

What is specifically meant by "...high & low parts of the engine."?
Is it relating to basic engine architecture, or is it pressure, &/or temperature gradients, within the gas flow stream?

[HPD]

@AlbertFabrega Ayer hablamos d la quema d aceite en los motores d F1. Qué és y q ha pasado? https://t.co/tFTtIYLLAT

Link to Tweet: https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 6284916736
explains the tricks of burning oil in the engine
En español

Very interesting, thank you

So there are some special valves wich allow oil transfer between the low and high parts of the engine

What is specifically meant by "...high & low parts of the engine."?

He speaks of active valves, which communicate the crankcase (or oil tank) to the intake. As an example

[mrluke]

The gearboxes will fit and the engine will bolt to the chassis. The other stuff can be bitched up to work.. Just as Mclaren fitted a honda engine in 2014 to a chassis design for MERCEDES engine. The problem is you will have a severely unoptimised or even compromised chassis setup. Bitching up the side pods cltuch and rear end when the other guy's stuff is as tightly packaged as a transvestite's trousers is how you lose speed.

Mclaren have had a lot of problems with their gearbox this year, I don't think it's something G that somebody can just knock up in a couple of weeks.

[loner]

The gearboxes will fit and the engine will bolt to the chassis. The other stuff can be bitched up to work.. Just as Mclaren fitted a honda engine in 2014 to a chassis design for MERCEDES engine. The problem is you will have a severely unoptimised or even compromised chassis setup. Bitching up the side pods cltuch and rear end when the other guy's stuff is as tightly packaged as a transvestite's trousers is how you lose speed.

Mclaren have had a lot of problems with their gearbox this year, I don't think it's something G that somebody can just knock up in a couple of weeks.

but what is the fuss about a tycoon engine manufacture to build a gearbox?!!
in other words what prevent Honda from building their own?

[fellowhoodlums]

time - can you design, build and fit your own gearbox in 5 months? Can you mate your own gearbox in that time period...yes....perhaps not perfectly at first.

[Andres125sx]

@AlbertFabrega Ayer hablamos d la quema d aceite en los motores d F1. Qué és y q ha pasado? https://t.co/tFTtIYLLAT

Link to Tweet: https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 6284916736
explains the tricks of burning oil in the engine
En español

Very interesting, thank you

So there are some special valves wich allow oil transfer between the low and high parts of the engine

Unfortunately I don't understand spanish. Why has there been 1.2kg x 100 on the slides? I thought it'd be 1.2 liter per 100km!?

That´s what he meant, even when the graphic is a bit misleading

[Andres125sx]

@AlbertFabrega Ayer hablamos d la quema d aceite en los motores d F1. Qué és y q ha pasado? https://t.co/tFTtIYLLAT

Link to Tweet: https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 6284916736
explains the tricks of burning oil in the engine
En español

Very interesting, thank you

So there are some special valves wich allow oil transfer between the low and high parts of the engine

What is specifically meant by "...high & low parts of the engine."?
Is it relating to basic engine architecture, or is it pressure, &/or temperature gradients, within the gas flow stream?

What HPD said, but exactly at the end of the video he talk about active valves to allow when they want that conexion so those gas/vapor (not sure what´s the correct term in english) can enter the intake... and the video finish without any futher detail

He´s implying the oil addition is not directly oil in liquid state, but its gas/vapor... is that correct?

[alexx_88]

You need to see Mclaren's reaction from their perspective as well. I'm pretty sure that, while probably not written in the contract, the initial promises were that Honda will use 2015 to learn, 2016 they'll begin to be competitive and 2017 they'll battle for wins. That was the plan that everyone signed up for and we were told as much in the initial joint press conferences. Judging from everything we've seen, Mclaren delivered their end of the bargain, or at least to a larger extent than Honda. They had a good car, a good development team ready to take on 2017. Now, from their perspective, looking at Honda, there has been 0 relative progress in these 3 years. They started 2015 a long way back from the front and that's where they are now.

Mclaren has access to way more data than us. They probably know what's expected for spec 4 and at least have a good idea of what the Renault PU can do. In the long run, why would you assume that Honda can build a better PU than Renault, even though Renault upped its investment in F1 significantly? What would be the objective reasoning for thinking that? The objective facts right now are that the Renault PU kept a consistent advantage over the past 3 years and their investment is larger than Honda's.