2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[geogate]

I think McLaren are in the best position to judge the timescales Honda require to come good.

[HPD]

It may be that Ilmor told Mclaren: "The Honda engine is not good."
And at the same time, Ilmor tells Red Bull: "Take Honda for the future, they have a good engine base to work with"

[j.yank]

Could you guys please talk about the 2018 Honda engine in the Toro Rosso topic.

Actually until the end of the season you are doomed to accept the Honda engine McLaren, too ...

[McL-H]

If this swap has gone through, the biggest losers out of it are McLaren.

1) Red Bull now have a works deal the moment the Honda PU gets up to scratch.
2) Renault have got Sainz and Hulkenberg which is a very very good pairing.
3) Honda have the opportunity to work without any pressure and then an equally good team like McLaren to win races with in RBR.

McLaren will now be up against Renault who are a complete woks unit and logic would say that in such an engine dominated formula, they would have their measure. The second team they will be up against have made the best chassis in F1 for the past decade.

You are absolutely right. How stupid could McLaren be.. The only thing they have done is make their opponents stronger, and to settle with mediocrity for the upcoming years. This is going to kill the team long term, making McLaren end up as Williams 2.0. With Renault engines, fourth is the best McLaren can be. They would pretty much be that with Honda next year as well, at least! Renault works team is getting stronger and stronger, and will not give McLaren the best engines.. Red Bull will not be receiving the best engines next year either (and not simultaneous with the works team), as they have a new contract next year. One of the reasons why Red Bull wants a works deal...... and now they have Honda.

Really great job.. People keep joking Honda is delivering 'dreams of power'. Well, at least that's more than this Renault deal gives me.

[geogate]

It may be that Ilmor told Mclaren: "The Honda engine is not good."
And at the same time, Ilmor tells Red Bull: "Take Honda for the future, they have a good engine base to work with"

I think it less about the engine itself, and more about the manufacturing and R&D infrastructure. I'm sure Mario will have been significant to McLarens decisions.
Following the disastrous winter testing, Mclaren and their consultants gained the kind of access one rarely gets to a Japanese manufacturer

[Schuttelberg]

If this swap has gone through, the biggest losers out of it are McLaren.

1) Red Bull now have a works deal the moment the Honda PU gets up to scratch.
2) Renault have got Sainz and Hulkenberg which is a very very good pairing.
3) Honda have the opportunity to work without any pressure and then an equally good team like McLaren to win races with in RBR.

McLaren will now be up against Renault who are a complete woks unit and logic would say that in such an engine dominated formula, they would have their measure. The second team they will be up against have made the best chassis in F1 for the past decade.

You are absolutely right. How stupid could McLaren be.. The only thing they have done is make their opponents stronger, and to settle with mediocrity for the upcoming years. This is going to kill the team long term, making McLaren end up as Williams 2.0. With Renault engines, fourth is the best McLaren can be. They would pretty much be that with Honda next year as well, at least! Renault works team is getting stronger and stronger, and will not give McLaren the best engines.. Red Bull will not be receiving the best engines next year either (and not simultaneous with the works team), as they have a new contract next year. One of the reasons why Red Bull wants a works deal...... and now they have Honda.

Really great job.. People keep joking Honda is delivering 'dreams of power'. Well, at least that's more than this Renault deal gives me.

Fair points!

There was something Vettel said in Monza that stuck to my head- We as an audience, the media and even sometimes the engineers and drivers put things on paper and make our analysis. But, the racing is done on track and that's exciting.

From my personal experience, racing and sport in general can show up people in funny ways. Merc and Ferrari are embroiled in a title battle and they might drop the ball on 2018.. Red Bull could have drivers fighting themselves and Renault could make a really poor car making McLaren-Renault Alpha. However, logic and myself just don't see the stars aligning. Alonso's career trajectory somehow tells me Red Bull Honda will challenge for the titles in 2019.

Lastly, I feel McLaren have good people. Better than Williams and I for one hope this works out. At the very least, I hope they have something in mind for 2020 and onwards. To see McLaren floundering around the mid-pack and hiring pay drivers would make me sick to my stomach. I must say, at such a critical stage, I'd prefer to have a veteran negotiating for McLaren.. Zak Brown might be an excellent chap in luring sponsors, but this is a chess game he certainly hasn't played before.

[nokivasara]

So it really is happening?

I'm dissapointed in how Mclaren has played this game, been a McL fan since the early 90's, but now they really messed up. When I first heard that Renault announced their comeback as a works team I hoped that Alonso would join them, in hindsight he probably would have been almost as vocal about Renault as he has been with Honda given the struggles they have had. Now he gets to drive a customer-Renault engined car that was built for Honda engines in a team that has lost it's team spirit. Oh boy.

But, with that said, I hope they'll fight for podiums next year, be it with a Honda or Renault engine in the back. Mclaren, FI, Renault and RB could be pretty evenly matched next year if all goes well for everybody.

[ringo]

You guys are overreacting. Sainz may be happening but not the engine deal. Sainz doesnt have an engine on his back like kobayashi, Sato, etc.
Honda can never be a works engine as well. It's in Japan. That's the killer for any definition of a "works engine" for a european centred racing series.
Ron Denis was just being a bit senile and nostalgic when he decided to go with honda as a works engine. From what we see with ferrari and mercedes and renault. A works team has the best benefit of a works engine when everything is almost under the same roof or in the same country. Or at least the same continent and culture.
Mclaren is being smart. They simply need an engine built in europe.
I wish they went back to mercedes but renault is fine. Reason being i wouldnt with bad on Toro Rosso to use Honda Engines. I just don't think those engines are going fast anywhere soon being built and designed in Japan. The barriers are just to high.
Mclaren are doing the right thing. Use renault now... draw power and influence away from Redbull. If Toro Rosso dare use Honda Engines, Renault will simply close off much of the communication with redbull.
In a few years BMW or porsche will be in the sport and Mclaren can Jump to them. They need not jump back to Honda, should by same amazing once in a billion years miracle happens and honda becomes the best engine in F1.

[geogate]

Mclaren Porsche sounds nice, and did cross my mind when the rumblings of Porsche coming into the series surfaced ... but I think they are just too direct competitors in the road car market.

I do agree the Sainz news dosnt seal the engine switch too

[aral]

There has been no announcement as yet so a lot of this is pure speculation. It may happen or it may not. But it is no reason to fly off into personal abuse of others. A number of posts have been removed and I would ask you to confine your comments to McLaren - Honda, until such a time as when any official announcement is made , when you will then be able to comment on McLaren XXXXXX

[RedNEO]

Yeah, that's not gonna happen buddy. Red Bull was Renault's works team until 2016. They have a much better contract than McLaren will ever get.

You mean the contract that doesn't allow Redbull to say anything bad or even say the word "Renault" due to what happened last year? That one?

How about the one that gives Red Bull a veto on other possible Renault customers?

Didn't work mate, McLaren Renault is a formality..

[Nebhotep]

Mclaren is being smart. They simply need an engine built in europe.
I wish they went back to mercedes but renault is fine. Reason being i wouldnt with bad on Toro Rosso to use Honda Engines. I just don't think those engines are going fast anywhere soon being built and designed in Japan.

As far as I know Honda F1 engines are built in Milton Keynes.
Also, they have been building race-winning engines in the eighties and nineties from Japan so it seems to have worked for them.

[RedNEO]

So it really is happening?

I'm dissapointed in how Mclaren has played this game, been a McL fan since the early 90's, but now they really messed up. When I first heard that Renault announced their comeback as a works team I hoped that Alonso would join them, in hindsight he probably would have been almost as vocal about Renault as he has been with Honda given the struggles they have had. Now he gets to drive a customer-Renault engined car that was built for Honda engines in a team that has lost it's team spirit. Oh boy.

But, with that said, I hope they'll fight for podiums next year, be it with a Honda or Renault engine in the back. Mclaren, FI, Renault and RB could be pretty evenly matched next year if all goes well for everybody.

No team is fighting for podiums next year with a Honda engine. Renault has no incentive to a provide any different service to its works team to McLaren as McLaren stands a better chance at succeeding then it does currently. For Renault it's a win win because now it has two teams who could win with its engine instead of just one.

[adrianjordan]

Mclaren is being smart. They simply need an engine built in europe.
I wish they went back to mercedes but renault is fine. Reason being i wouldnt with bad on Toro Rosso to use Honda Engines. I just don't think those engines are going fast anywhere soon being built and designed in Japan.

As far as I know Honda F1 engines are built in Milton Keynes.
Also, they have been building race-winning engines in the eighties and nineties from Japan so it seems to have worked for them.

No, built in Japan, the facility in Milton Keynes is just for maintenance etc.

[Sayeman]

So it really is happening?

I'm dissapointed in how Mclaren has played this game, been a McL fan since the early 90's, but now they really messed up. When I first heard that Renault announced their comeback as a works team I hoped that Alonso would join them, in hindsight he probably would have been almost as vocal about Renault as he has been with Honda given the struggles they have had. Now he gets to drive a customer-Renault engined car that was built for Honda engines in a team that has lost it's team spirit. Oh boy.

But, with that said, I hope they'll fight for podiums next year, be it with a Honda or Renault engine in the back. Mclaren, FI, Renault and RB could be pretty evenly matched next year if all goes well for everybody.

No team is fighting for podiums next year with a Honda engine. Renault has no incentive to a provide any different service to its works team to McLaren as McLaren stands a better chance at succeeding then it does currently. For Renault it's a win win because now it has two teams who could win with its engine instead of just one.

Mclaren like Redbull will take 100% credit whenever they win anything. There is nothing in it for Renault. Thats why they entered as a manufacturer