Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Zynerji]

This is why I don't like the variable gps maps.

It is a driver aid, plain and simple.

It's probably the opposite of a driver aid. The drivers have to concentrate more to eliminate any "noise" ie unnecessary and arbitrary presses of the pedals, and steering movements to get the most out of the electrical energy deployment strategy.
For example if the simulation needs the car to be 100% throttle for 5 seconds after a particular turn then it starts some kind of deployment, then the driver has to make sure he sticks to the script and not let off the pedal or turn the steering wheel nonchalantly. He has to play the "musical notes" just right to take advantage of the "tune".
This deployment schedule is like an extreme case of nursing a car.

You literally made my point.

It's nothing but a driver aid.

Put triggers above the paddles on each side of the wheel... Left trigger charges, right trigger deploys.

Get the computer out of the power delivery loop. It should only control timing and injecting.

[PlatinumZealot]

GPS input into ERS deployment of course aids the car to go faster... but it doesn't keep the car on the road so I wouldn't deem it a driver aid. Something like Anti lock brakes or traction control helps the driver control the car better. ERS maps don't interfere with the attitude of the car IMO.

[CBeck113]

GPS input into ERS deployment of course aids the car to go faster... but it doesn't keep the car on the road so I wouldn't deem it a driver aid. Something like Anti lock brakes or traction control helps the driver control the car better. ERS maps don't interfere with the attitude of the car IMO.

I can't agree with you - using special settings for each corner is very much preping the car specifically for a section of the track, which can only be a driver aid to make it go faster, because if he doesn't do exactly what the car expects, it defaults into a back-up programm and cannot be driven...that shows that the driver no longer has complete control. For me that can basically be made to work as traction control.

[Just_a_fan]

Get the computer out of the power delivery loop. It should only control timing and injecting.

Why stop there? Let's go back to advance/retard on the steering wheel, a manual pump for fuel pressure etc.

[Juzh]

GPS input into ERS deployment of course aids the car to go faster... but it doesn't keep the car on the road so I wouldn't deem it a driver aid. Something like Anti lock brakes or traction control helps the driver control the car better. ERS maps don't interfere with the attitude of the car IMO.

I can't agree with you - using special settings for each corner is very much preping the car specifically for a section of the track, which can only be a driver aid to make it go faster, because if he doesn't do exactly what the car expects, it defaults into a back-up programm and cannot be driven...that shows that the driver no longer has complete control. For me that can basically be made to work as traction control.

This has been known since 2014. Why bring it up now?

[PlatinumZealot]

Get the computer out of the power delivery loop. It should only control timing and injecting.

Why stop there? Let's go back to advance/retard on the steering wheel, a manual pump for fuel pressure etc.

Exactly!!!
All the GPS does is switch where the power comes from. The torque demand can only stay the same... or less if your batteries run out.

[dren]

Get the computer out of the power delivery loop. It should only control timing and injecting.

Why stop there? Let's go back to advance/retard on the steering wheel, a manual pump for fuel pressure etc.

Exactly!!!
All the GPS does is switch where the power comes from. The torque demand can only stay the same... or less if your batteries run out.

And the last I checked, the torque demand comes from the acceleration pedal.

[Maritimer]

They aren't allowed to use GPS for anything last I checked, has to be based on driver inputs only. Throttle and brake maps are just programmed into the vehicle so it "knows" where it is. Every input should, hypothetically, be unique to each corner, so it's not much of a stretch to assign them to a given section of track.

Ideally it should simply be that the motor kicks in at a given torque demand percentage and that's it but you can't make engineers unlearn things and nobody is mandating the system functions as such.

[dren]

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/merced ... -info-news

This is claiming the MGUH on the F1 PU is generating 107hp. I haven't seen that figure anywhere else. It also gives some more specifics into the Mercedes PU. I don't know how much is real or gleaned information, though.

[PlatinumZealot]

Why stop there? Let's go back to advance/retard on the steering wheel, a manual pump for fuel pressure etc.

Exactly!!!
All the GPS does is switch where the power comes from. The torque demand can only stay the same... or less if your batteries run out.

And the last I checked, the torque demand comes from the acceleration pedal.

Yes the torque demand comes from the accelerator pedal and stays the same in a given setting. As long as you have enough battery the engine will deliver the torque demanded. The GPS only optimizes the battery charging and discharge to meet the driver's torque demand. It is totally invisible once it is working.

[gruntguru]

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/merced ... -info-news

This is claiming the MGUH on the F1 PU is generating 107hp. I haven't seen that figure anywhere else. It also gives some more specifics into the Mercedes PU. I don't know how much is real or gleaned information, though.

"the MGU­-H develops 107 horsepower" - it doesn't say if that is in "motoring" or "generating" mode.

[CBeck113]

GPS input into ERS deployment of course aids the car to go faster... but it doesn't keep the car on the road so I wouldn't deem it a driver aid. Something like Anti lock brakes or traction control helps the driver control the car better. ERS maps don't interfere with the attitude of the car IMO.

I can't agree with you - using special settings for each corner is very much preping the car specifically for a section of the track, which can only be a driver aid to make it go faster, because if he doesn't do exactly what the car expects, it defaults into a back-up programm and cannot be driven...that shows that the driver no longer has complete control. For me that can basically be made to work as traction control.

This has been known since 2014. Why bring it up now?

I didn't bring it up, just added my $0.02

[f1316]

They aren't allowed to use GPS for anything last I checked, has to be based on driver inputs only. Throttle and brake maps are just programmed into the vehicle so it "knows" where it is. Every input should, hypothetically, be unique to each corner, so it's not much of a stretch to assign them to a given section of track.

Ideally it should simply be that the motor kicks in at a given torque demand percentage and that's it but you can't make engineers unlearn things and nobody is mandating the system functions as such.

Yes, exactly - that's why Alonso's engine thought it was somewhere else when he went flat through Pouhon. (Edit: obviously if it was using GPS, it would know where it was)

Whether or not it's a driver aid, I personally suggest that the spirit of an engine being mapped to a race track is part of that whole overly complicated/fan gets nothing out of it; less pre programming of both PUs and suspension would be positive imho.

[dren]

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/merced ... -info-news

This is claiming the MGUH on the F1 PU is generating 107hp. I haven't seen that figure anywhere else. It also gives some more specifics into the Mercedes PU. I don't know how much is real or gleaned information, though.

"the MGU­-H develops 107 horsepower" - it doesn't say if that is in "motoring" or "generating" mode.

Would it need to motor at 107hp to turn a compressor...?

I'd assume it's generating 107hp. The article clearly states the turbine is oversized to drive the MGUH once the compressor is happy.

[Zynerji]

Get the computer out of the power delivery loop. It should only control timing and injecting.

Why stop there? Let's go back to advance/retard on the steering wheel, a manual pump for fuel pressure etc.

Why not bring back launch control, traction control and auto up shifts as well?