2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[Shrieker]

"McLaren Renault" would've been fantastic news and a great success for the team for securing an engine contract approximately 25 years ago, around this time of the year.

Nowadays, I'm not so sure...

I think Ron did try hard for this IIRC, he even went to France to hold talks with them, but was finally vetoed by Williams. Right ?

[HPD]

I think people, mainly Mclaren fans. They have to know that there will be no other year "2017" or "2015".
Honda already said that the engine architecture will be the same. If Mclaren finishes this year as the fourth fastest team, they will start in 2018 minimally, as the fourth fastest.
People are afraid to start as "2015" or "2017". Calm down, this is not going to happen anymore.

If I am wrong, you can correct me. Thanks

... pigs will fly

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2017/team.html

You´re welcome

PS: I know that was just an example, but since they´re 9th right now it should have been a bit more credible

I do not talk about points in the championship. I thought my message was clear..

[Andres125sx]

I think people, mainly Mclaren fans. They have to know that there will be no other year "2017" or "2015".
Honda already said that the engine architecture will be the same. If Mclaren finishes this year as the fourth fastest team, they will start in 2018 minimally, as the fourth fastest.
People are afraid to start as "2015" or "2017". Calm down, this is not going to happen anymore.

If I am wrong, you can correct me. Thanks

... pigs will fly

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2017/team.html

You´re welcome

PS: I know that was just an example, but since they´re 9th right now it should have been a bit more credible

I do not talk about points in the championship. I thought my message was clear..

It was, but I couldn´t stop myself after reading "if McLaren finish 4th in the championship"

Anycase I agree, as I´ve defended in this and other threads I was willing to see McLaren-Honda in 2018, not because of the great potential Honda probably has, but because of McLaren-Renault to me sounds second class specially when you remind it was McLaren-Mercedes not so long ago and it was not enough for McLaren... I wonder how did they justify a switch for McLaren-Renault now

[zeph]

Because McLaren-Mercedes was three years ago, the team has new technical staff, new management, and new drivers?


Also, I have always been puzzled by McLaren's performance in 2014. They were comfortably best of the rest in Australia, had a double podium, and then they just fell off a cliff.

It was reported that the difference was in the fuel/lubricant supplier, and the firing of Whitmarsh and return of Ron Dennis may have been a factor, too. Anyway, in Australia the McLaren looked strong, the rest of the season not so much. I always wondered about that.

[Jolle]

Because McLaren-Mercedes was three years ago, the team has new technical staff, new management, and new drivers?


Also, I have always been puzzled by McLaren's performance in 2014. They were comfortably best of the rest in Australia, had a double podium, and then they just fell off a cliff.

It was reported that the difference was in the fuel/lubricant supplier, and the firing of Whitmarsh and return of Ron Dennis may have been a factor, too. Anyway, in Australia the McLaren looked strong, the rest of the season not so much. I always wondered about that.

they weren't that bad (compared to 2015-now) in 2014... they had, after the first GP a few 4th and 5th places... that first race was just special because Hamilton broke down, Ricciardo DQ, Vettel DNF and Ferrari got it all wrong.

For 2014 McLaren made the choice back in 2012 to design a whole new car for 2013, where other teams like Mercedes and Williams opted for an evolution, putting all their cards (and CFD/Tunnel time) into the 2014 cars. RedBull made the same choice by further develop their 2013 car in the second half of the season (dominating as the only actively developed car) and paying the price with a half done design at 2014....

[ZakB]

Because McLaren-Mercedes was three years ago, the team has new technical staff, new management, and new drivers?


Also, I have always been puzzled by McLaren's performance in 2014. They were comfortably best of the rest in Australia, had a double podium, and then they just fell off a cliff.

It was reported that the difference was in the fuel/lubricant supplier, and the firing of Whitmarsh and return of Ron Dennis may have been a factor, too. Anyway, in Australia the McLaren looked strong, the rest of the season not so much. I always wondered about that.

they weren't that bad (compared to 2015-now) in 2014... they had, after the first GP a few 4th and 5th places... that first race was just special because Hamilton broke down, Ricciardo DQ, Vettel DNF and Ferrari got it all wrong.

For 2014 McLaren made the choice back in 2012 to design a whole new car for 2013, where other teams like Mercedes and Williams opted for an evolution, putting all their cards (and CFD/Tunnel time) into the 2014 cars. RedBull made the same choice by further develop their 2013 car in the second half of the season (dominating as the only actively developed car) and paying the price with a half done design at 2014....

It was also the reason why Ron Dennis took over. I still find it amazing how Whitmarsh could make a mistake like that. The McLaren was the best car at the end of 2012, why would you develop a complete new car when there was only 1 year left until the V6's were coming.

[Wazari]

I for one, think both McLaren and Honda would be better off parting ways. This current partnership has been toxic since day one. Both parties at fault and just not a good "fit" between Boullier, McLaren and Honda. Personally, I don't think McLaren will ever win with Boullier. After being around him and seeing his leadership style and methods, well......I am surprised he is at McLaren. Honda's previous two presidents were not racing fans and the corporate culture suffered in terms of racing because of that. The current president and I know each well, started at Honda around the same time and worked side by side in the early 80's. He's an engineer and loves racing and Honda I believe is on the right path in Sakura and not that far off from having a PU capable with competing with everyone else.

Also I don't know where this $100 million figure came from in terms of Honda's sponsorship to McLaren. That figure isn't even close.

[Squid]

The one thing that always struck me was how McLaren always seemed to want to separate themselves from Honda, to the point where I didn't think the team could honestly call itself McLaren Honda.

From McLaren's side, all you hear about, and most of the time from Eric Boullier, is how everything from McLaren is great and the engine is the only thing letting them down. It might even be true, but that's not the point. A real team wins as a team and fails as a team. All this public drama and airing of dirty laundry did absolutely nothing to help.

I have no doubt a split would have happened even if McLaren had acted properly, but think of how differently we would have been discussing this if they had. Instead, we have people like ZakB who fed off McLaren's negativity campaign, and that's what McLaren Honda's legacy is: Divisiveness, conflict and ill will amongst the fans.

[CBeck113]

I for one, think both McLaren and Honda would be better off parting ways. This current partnership has been toxic since day one. Both parties at fault and just not a good "fit" between Boullier, McLaren and Honda. Personally, I don't think McLaren will ever win with Boullier. After being around him and seeing his leadership style and methods, well......I am surprised he is at McLaren. Honda's previous two presidents were not racing fans and the corporate culture suffered in terms of racing because of that. The current president and I know each well, started at Honda around the same time and worked side by side in the early 80's. He's an engineer and loves racing and Honda I believe is on the right path in Sakura and not that far off from having a PU capable with competing with everyone else.

Very interesting thoughts...

Also I don't know where this $100 million figure came from in terms of Honda's sponsorship to McLaren. That figure isn't even close.

Is it too high or too low?

[Abarth]

[...]The one thing that always struck me was how McLaren always seemed to want to separate themselves from Honda[...]

Interesting. They didn't give me that impression until winter testing early this year.

Regarding Boullier..wasn't he the guy who led Lotus (now Renault) to be close up to the best teams until 2013, with a win and a bunch of podiums?
His style might not be to everyones gusto, but that he cannot be succesful is quite a stretch.

I can really understand McLaren. I always was hoping that Honda eventually got their act together, but up to now, three years after the first showing in that experimental car, they obviously didn't succeed. On the other hand, the team was building finally a good car and all hopes were crushed this winter. How not to be extremely disappointed?
We should never linearily extrapolate from the past, but McLaren for sure have more insight and data to take such extremely expensive decisions, not even taking into account any tangible sponsoring money from Honda.

I believe that this "public drama" was not a mirror of their character and bad handling of the issue, but a strategy to make Honda give up with F1, which would have been a better financial option for McLaren. It didn't pay out, and they don't look too good now, in that I agree completely.

[Sonador]

It is sad if Honda and Mclaren split up, 2 amazing racing company's.

But i have to agree that the relationship was rocky at the best of times, Boullier needs to go ASAP, i have been saying that since he joined Mclaren.
They schould have kept Whitmarsh instead of firing him like that, yes maybe he made a mistake.
But he was a great leader, he seemed humble.

I can agree that, when the performance is not there that it is frustrating, but you do NOT bash a whole company like that publicly on mutiple occasions like Boullier did.
That is just an good example of really bad leadership, think of all the worker in Japan, comming home from a hard days of work and reading those headlines!
It makes me cringe that Mclaren has become this way.

Same goes for the crap Alonso is saying about Honda, i get it, it is frustrating as whole heck.
But making snarky remarks trying to be funny, does not help.
Toxic guy, fast and incredible driver, but toxic behaviour, and that dissapoints me greatly.

No i am not a Mclaren fan anymore, i used to adore them ....
Now i am just disapointed, the way they conduct themselfs the way they bashed they engine partner, not championworthy, not Mclaren like.

[kasio]

...
Regarding Boullier..wasn't he the guy who led Lotus (now Renault) to be close up to the best teams until 2013, with a win and a bunch of podiums?
His style might not be to everyones gusto, but that he cannot be succesful is quite a stretch.

He was actually one who dragged team down. Lotus had much more into it and they lost a lot of points probably even victories because of bad pitstops and race strategy. Team was not functioning well just like McLaren currently.

[Cannonballer]

Because McLaren-Mercedes was three years ago, the team has new technical staff, new management, and new drivers?


Also, I have always been puzzled by McLaren's performance in 2014. They were comfortably best of the rest in Australia, had a double podium, and then they just fell off a cliff.

It was reported that the difference was in the fuel/lubricant supplier, and the firing of Whitmarsh and return of Ron Dennis may have been a factor, too. Anyway, in Australia the McLaren looked strong, the rest of the season not so much. I always wondered about that.

they weren't that bad (compared to 2015-now) in 2014... they had, after the first GP a few 4th and 5th places... that first race was just special because Hamilton broke down, Ricciardo DQ, Vettel DNF and Ferrari got it all wrong.

For 2014 McLaren made the choice back in 2012 to design a whole new car for 2013, where other teams like Mercedes and Williams opted for an evolution, putting all their cards (and CFD/Tunnel time) into the 2014 cars. RedBull made the same choice by further develop their 2013 car in the second half of the season (dominating as the only actively developed car) and paying the price with a half done design at 2014....

It was also the reason why Ron Dennis took over. I still find it amazing how Whitmarsh could make a mistake like that. The McLaren was the best car at the end of 2012, why would you develop a complete new car when there was only 1 year left until the V6's were coming.

They thought that it would be easier to design the best car in 2013 under technical regulations that they were already familiar with when no one was bringing updates, justifying that the 1st year of new regulations in 2014 more of a gamble, rationalizing that they could then out develop the field to catch up in 2015?

[lio007]

I've to throw in some other topic: do anybody of you know, how long McLaren is going to use the windtunnel in Cologne? Because they are sill there, and I can remember from a YouTube Video, that they have their own inhouse wind tunnel and didn't Manor use it too?

[techman]

ooooh look whose back. where have you been for the last 7 months?

it's no good being lighter when you're 100hp down in almost every configuration

yeah believing people like andrew benson, a typical media honda basher making up numbers. once he said mer has 1000bhp in 2016. all bs. stuff. hasegawa has said he going to overtake renault and he can see the from data, the spec 4 is the one. honda are probably equal but the high drag philosophy of mclaren is holding them back.mclaren toot their horns by addiing max donwforce and blame straight line speed deficit to honda, next year, they will be exposed big time. no where to hide for those mclaren and their fans. as for your question where i was, i was busy with work now that iam a full time mechanic.