2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[hemichromis]

I've been hearing that this switch is not going to happen, not without Mclaren forcibly breaking their contract anyway. This would obviously lead them to be legally and therefore financially very vulnerable.

I'm hoping what i hear is correct as Honda will get it right at some point. I remember how Renault's engine took a leap with new combustion technology, that is exactly what will come with spec 4. So they may even get it right this year!

I still haven't lost hope!

[lio007]

I've been hearing that this switch is not going to happen, not without Mclaren forcibly breaking their contract anyway. This would obviously lead them to be legally and therefore financially very vulnerable.

I'm hoping what i hear is correct as Honda will get it right at some point. I remember how Renault's engine took a leap with new combustion technology, that is exactly what will come with spec 4. So they may even get it right this year!

I still haven't lost hope!

Wow, this would be a complete U-turn. A lot of reports suggested and made us believe it's a done deal.

[Alonso Fan]

ooooh look whose back. where have you been for the last 7 months?

it's no good being lighter when you're 100hp down in almost every configuration

yeah believing people like andrew benson, a typical media honda basher making up numbers. once he said mer has 1000bhp in 2016. all bs. stuff. hasegawa has said he going to overtake renault and he can see the from data, the spec 4 is the one. honda are probably equal but the high drag philosophy of mclaren is holding them back.mclaren toot their horns by addiing max donwforce and blame straight line speed deficit to honda, next year, they will be exposed big time. no where to hide for those mclaren and their fans. as for your question where i was, i was busy with work now that iam a full time mechanic.

Yeah sure, that was a Monaco setup they were running at Spa right?

You're as deluded as they come

[BeardedAce]

ooooh look whose back. where have you been for the last 7 months?

it's no good being lighter when you're 100hp down in almost every configuration

yeah believing people like andrew benson, a typical media honda basher making up numbers. once he said mer has 1000bhp in 2016. all bs. stuff. hasegawa has said he going to overtake renault and he can see the from data, the spec 4 is the one. honda are probably equal but the high drag philosophy of mclaren is holding them back.mclaren toot their horns by addiing max donwforce and blame straight line speed deficit to honda, next year, they will be exposed big time. no where to hide for those mclaren and their fans. as for your question where i was, i was busy with work now that iam a full time mechanic.

Yeah sure, that was a Monaco setup they were running at Spa right?

You're as deluded as they come

Better prepare for another frustrating year for saint Alonso. Rotting in midfield with "precious" Renault engine while his archenemy Hamilton and Vettel piles up wins and titles and overshadows him in every way possible

[RedNEO]

yeah believing people like andrew benson, a typical media honda basher making up numbers. once he said mer has 1000bhp in 2016. all bs. stuff. hasegawa has said he going to overtake renault and he can see the from data, the spec 4 is the one. honda are probably equal but the high drag philosophy of mclaren is holding them back.mclaren toot their horns by addiing max donwforce and blame straight line speed deficit to honda, next year, they will be exposed big time. no where to hide for those mclaren and their fans. as for your question where i was, i was busy with work now that iam a full time mechanic.

Yeah sure, that was a Monaco setup they were running at Spa right?

You're as deluded as they come

Better prepare for another frustrating year for saint Alonso. Rotting in midfield with "precious" Renault engine while his archenemy Hamilton and Vettel piles up wins and titles and overshadows him in every way possible

I think your confused as to what's actually happening here. McLaren is getting RID of the Honda engine not keeping it.

[the EDGE]

Yeah sure, that was a Monaco setup they were running at Spa right?

You're as deluded as they come

Better prepare for another frustrating year for saint Alonso. Rotting in midfield with "precious" Renault engine while his archenemy Hamilton and Vettel piles up wins and titles and overshadows him in every way possible

I think your confused as to what's actually happening here. McLaren is getting RID of the Honda engine not keeping it.

Maybe, maybe not. It's just a likely both McLaren & Torro Rosso will use Honda engines next year

[BeardedAce]

Yeah sure, that was a Monaco setup they were running at Spa right?

You're as deluded as they come

Better prepare for another frustrating year for saint Alonso. Rotting in midfield with "precious" Renault engine while his archenemy Hamilton and Vettel piles up wins and titles and overshadows him in every way possible

I think your confused as to what's actually happening here. McLaren is getting RID of the Honda engine not keeping it.

No, Honda is Getting Rid of the whiners.

[Phil]

Also I don't know where this $100 million figure came from in terms of Honda's sponsorship to McLaren. That figure isn't even close.

I think the 100 million is the "safe" figure being thrown around - the safe estimate of what many believe to be the bear minimum Honda has been saving McLaren, probably derived from

- $ 30-40 million Alonso salary
- $ 30-40 million free engines
- $ 30-40 million main-sponsorship that McLaren lacks.

I'd probably estimate Honda paying way more than that. Vodaphone apparently was spending around 75 million on their sponsorship deal with McLaren, so if Honda is paying similar amounts on top of the engines McLaren doesn't have to pay, we're probably closer to 150-200 million, especially if the rumors are true that Honda has been willingly paying more to balance out the loss of sponsors as a direct consequence of failing results.

Tell me I am wrong? That the [100 million] figure isn't even close, can IMO only mean it to be way more than a 100M.

[Chene_Mostert]

Better prepare for another frustrating year for saint Alonso. Rotting in midfield with "precious" Renault engine while his archenemy Hamilton and Vettel piles up wins and titles and overshadows him in every way possible

I think your confused as to what's actually happening here. McLaren is getting RID of the Honda engine not keeping it.

No, Honda is Getting Rid of the whiners.

Mutual benefit: Honda can continue to under deliver, but without their incompetence being made public
McLaren will be given the opportunity to show us how good their car really is... Or not...

[Xero]

I think the 100 million is the "safe" figure being thrown around - the safe estimate of what many believe to be the bear minimum Honda has been saving McLaren, probably derived from

- $ 30-40 million Alonso salary
- $ 30-40 million free engines
- $ 30-40 million main-sponsorship that McLaren lacks.

I'd probably estimate Honda paying way more than that. Vodaphone apparently was spending around 75 million on their sponsorship deal with McLaren, so if Honda is paying similar amounts on top of the engines McLaren doesn't have to pay, we're probably closer to 150-200 million, especially if the rumors are true that Honda has been willingly paying more to balance out the loss of sponsors as a direct consequence of failing results.

Tell me I am wrong? That the [100 million] figure isn't even close, can IMO only mean it to be way more than a 100M.

I seem to recall Honda pays McLaren $25 million a year for sponsorship, and half of the drivers salaries. So about ~$45m total, plus the free engines, whatever that amounts to. The numbers keep getting inflated with bad information and rumours.

[Vasconia]

Problem here is that demanding good results in third year of a new project when two first years development was restricted is similar to someone demanding good results in first or second year of a new project in past eras without development restrictions. Who would demand that? None, none sane at least.

I think Alonso is partially responsible for this, as he stated he´d make a decision about his future after the summer break, so McLaren probably used that date as a reference point to evaluate Honda potential too, because shareholders were becoming impatinent too

But I really think if they make the split for next season, it´s fairly plausible they split with Honda exactly when they will start to perform decently, and that would be too painful after these three seasons. Can you imagine STR-Honda beating McLaren-Reanult?


To me that would be almost predictable. Honda designed a poor PU in 2015, they were forced to keep that concept for 2016 as tokens didn´t allow for the neccessary changes. They do that drastic change in 2017 when tokens are removed, but suffer several unexpected problems (wich even Honda warned about) wich force them to make more drastic changes wich need at least 6 months, so they have to cope with that "faulty" PU most of 2017 season, and exactly before Honda introduces spec 4 wich is the PU that will solve those problems, McLaren is going to split?

To me that move would instantly put McLaren on the top 10 of the most stupid moves F1 teams have ever done, much higher than their switch to Honda. After two and a half painful seasons waiting another half to see if Honda has finally found the track is mandatory in my eyes. Problem is if they wait until the end of the season, then they can´t make a switch for 2018, but that´s a risk I really think they must assume because...

Can you imagine STR-Honda beating McLaren-Renault in 2018 or 2019 when it was McLaren who suffered Honda development curve?
http://julipagemorgan.com/wp-content/up ... cePalm.jpg

I can see this happening, and yes, this move is risky too. Renault could fail(again) to improve enough to be competitive in 2018. And yes, Honda could(finally) build a good PU and make TR fast. But I think that McLaren has improved steadely their chasis during the last seasons and I don´t see any reason where McLaren should fail to build another(and evern better) chasis in 2018 and be faster than TR.

Let´s see the other side of the coin. Alonso leaves McLaren at the end of this season, Honda fails to build a truly good PU and McLaren is again at the back of the package, without Alonso to mask their poor results. Can you imagine how tense would be the situation in McLaren?

Both moves are risky but I think McLaren is trying to survive in 2018/9/20 and then start another project with a PU supplier.

[Phil]

The numbers keep getting inflated with bad information and rumours.

Unfortunately, I can find only one article (by the telegraph.co.uk) suggesting that it's only 25 million in sponsorship and half of the salaries. I can find way more hits using google suggesting that the level of investment by Honda towards McLaren to be far higher.

They may be all quoting the same source who made up some arbitrary figure... but one of the better "hits" I found is this one by Reuters:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-moto ... SKBN18Y297

Honda contribute more than $100 million a year to McLaren’s budget, according to informed sources, and some have questioned whether the team can afford to lose such sums.

Considering that another F1 site claims that McLaren-Honda operates on a 450M Euro annual budget, I'd be quite surprised to find if it is indeed true that the Honda deal is only worth a supposed USD 45+M per year.

All IMO of course.

[kfrantzios]

It seems to be official when the Zak Brown owned motorsport.com writes about it...
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... ip-952183/

[RedNEO]

It seems to be official when the Zak Brown owned motorsport.com writes about it...
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... ip-952183/

Glorious! =D>

[Phil]

@RedNEO,

I am basing it on what information is publicly available and logical reasoning. If you have differing indications leading to different conclusions, please do share.