Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[PlatinumZealot]

Why does a double mass fly wheel for Accord cost 2500€ and for Passat 1000€, when the Passat is 10 to 20 times better car?

Because you were scammed.

[drunkf1fan]

well mr.drunk
if in February the PU couldn't do the winter test and if in October same PU compete with one of the top 3 teams
that would be from zero to hero material lets wait and see those few weeks ,until then...

Based on what are you suggesting Honda will compete with the top 3 teams in October? Honda have announced several big upgrades throughout the past 2.5 seasons and basically every time there is no where near the gain nor reliability improvements they claim. They were 3 seconds off Mercedes CRUISING pace in Monza, you think the team that is spending more resources rushing fixes for reliability than working on pure performance is going to make a several times larger than anything Mercedes have made since 2014 in one go?

When Honda actually deliver a great upgrade where I can see the performance on track I'll believe it, when they say a big upgrade is coming, I'll assume they'll deliver about 30% of the claimed performance and kill 3 new engines making it work right.

I'd put the chances of Honda matching Renault in October at.... 3-4% and Mclaren suddenly competing with RBR outside of fluke, safety cars, crashes/contact or some other outside factor then I doubt they'll be anywhere near by the end of next year let alone this October.

[loner]

i can't argue with you until the Suzuka gp 6th October, should be the debut of the spec 4 major update.

[r101]

I think McLaren knew already for some time how much power spec 4 will bring. Yet they still went for Renault.

[ringo]

I don't see why someone wants mods to clean my post.
I am not a detractor of Honda, but at some point you have to accept that you cannot beleive anything that comes out of Hasagawa's mouth. All these versions of engines.. 2,3,4, add up to nothing at the end of the day.
We do not know how much power this engine makes despite all the upgrades, and the drivers cannot even tell us which other aspects of the engine has improved, or is better than the competing engines.
A 2014 mercedes engine is far superior to the current honda engine, which goes to show that Honda are at least 3 years behind. Next year's engine, just by the trend, will be dejavu for Mclaren as it's probably going to be on par with a 2014 mercedes PU.
Can someone who has followed this engine closely list the progress that has been made from the first year in terms of a race with best power or kms before a failure for each year?
It pains the heart, but i don't see what Honda will do differently from next year based on the past 3 years.

[Singabule]

I´m mainly an Alonso supporter, even when I also like the enginering, but now I´ll root for Honda. IMHO McLaren did split in the worst possible timeframe, exactly when Honda has bottomed and now they will only improve and improve and improve.

If/when STR beat McLaren next season in some GP, I´ll laugh deeply. STR make awesome cars, once Honda start working Mclaren will have a problem with that poor PU, because like it or not, Renault is a poor PU right now.

Yeah, the current STR is such a great car.

Yes, STR is a great car if you take into account their budget.

Stop hating McLaren for the failing Honda.

Look who´s talking

I expect TR would raise their game with free engine and sponsorship from honda, as long as it is James key that lead them. Also MK facility is ready and RB May assign their staff to help PU integration and to know Honda PU as well, in case that honda PU is not that bad, RB and Honda finally unite. Also mobil fuel development for honda engines would inline as well, as Mobil and Honda has a great awareness in US area, so it is nice for them as well. I dont know how valkrie project May hampers the progress, but i think this project is useless and can not beat Merc one. Just get rid of AM in 2019

[wuzak]

Toro rosso on the other hand is in trouble only because they dont make their own gearboxes. And honda foes not have an active formula 1 gearbox program at the moment. For Toro Rosso they have to get RedBull to modify their gearbox to fit the honda engine which for redbull is an annoying order.

But Toro Ross do make their own gearboxes, except for the gearsets.

[wuzak]

I expect closer 2018. If Honda can improve as planned and if they can catch Renault before the end of this season as Hasegawa san had said,, I am sure RB will start trying to find way of switching Honda in season. It's exciting situation now. but we have to wait to see what Honda will do. I believe they'll be good.

That is exactly the problem.

Honda have not improved as planned.

Honda were saying they would catch Ferrari by Spa 2016. Not sure they are at the level of Ferrari's 2016 PU now, a year later.

And you can't directly compare with Sauber. Sauber are, essentially, running an upgraded 2015 (2014?) chassis and have had very little, relatively speaking, aero development in those years. And the 2016 Ferrari PU is not designed around the lateral loads the 2017 cars can pull.

[wuzak]

I believe one of the main issues in the relationship between McLaren and Honda is that the latter have over-promised and under-delivered and now McLaren don't believe what they say.

[RedNEO]

I believe one of the main issues in the relationship between McLaren and Honda is that the latter have over-promised and under-delivered and now McLaren don't believe what they say.

And you can't really blame them, the results on track have shown they just simply cannot deliver.

[Andres125sx]

Did anyone notice this is the Honda PU thread????

[f1316]

Yes. The Mclaren box already exists; it's a 'simple' purchase.

Yes, and the converse is also true - McLaren will be using an RB gearbox, at least initially.

Once both teams are fully up and running, they'll swap that around.

Not true. Mclaren can make a new belhousing to fit the renault engine. Where you dont want to go is changing the susepension area. That is asking for trouble. When all the engines have the same crank centre line and the same bolt pattern it is easier to change the part of the bell housing where the exhaust pipe comes out than to change to a new gearbox.

Toro rosso on the other hand is in trouble only because they dont make their own gearboxes. And honda foes not have an active formula 1 gearbox program at the moment. For Toro Rosso they have to get RedBull to modify their gearbox to fit the honda engine which for redbull is an annoying order.

Right, but isn't the bottom line there basically: McLaren can happily make Renault gearboxes, just not day 1 (everything I've read is that they use a Red Bull gearbox in 2018); for Red Bull to supply Toro Rosso with Honda-compatible gearboxes is more complex because it means running two parallel specifications across the two teams, but they will do it nonetheless down the line (it actually gives them the benefit of having everything set up to go with the Honda PU in the main car if and when it becomes competitive).

So unless I'm missing something, what I said was actually a correct high-level summary - just missing the detail you've added.

[Joseki]

Wazari wrote in the team topic that spec 4 will not hit the track this year, that means two things:

1) I was right about it getting delayed to 2018 like it was for the "Malesian update" last year
2) No real update this year, McLaren-Honda will suck until their very last moment.

[etusch]

Wazari wrote in the team topic that spec 4 will not hit the track this year, that means two things:

1) I was right about it getting delayed to 2018 like it was for the "Malesian update" last year
2) No real update this year, McLaren-Honda will suck until their very last moment.

Spec 3.7 was not bad at Monza. In time it could be become a bit better.
For me it makes sense that Honda does not try to make McLaren better. They just concentrate to 2018 with whole power

[mclaren111]

Did anyone notice this is the Honda PU thread????

AGREE !!!!!