Renault Sport Racing and McLaren Racing are pleased to announce they have agreed an engine supply partnership for the 2018, 2019 and 2020 seasons. The deal will see Renault Sport Racing supply McLaren with Formula 1 power units, while also establishing a close working relationship with McLaren’s engineers and technicians.
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Probably a good move for both if true. It will save Honda about $160 million not including the free PU's. It will be interesting if anyone steps up to cover that gap or if McLaren is going to run a much leaner budget compared to this year.
Well we won't see the Spec 4 PU this year...........
with due respect wazari, honda must use that "free up" money to get his act together and bring engine up to the level of competition. whether mclaren made right decision , will be judged by what they show on track next year. i would love to see a slap from honda on their face , by getting PU up to the level or merc/ferrari but i suspect it is going to happen.
4th vs. wherever they finished in the WCC last 2 years ? How much is the gap ?
You must be dreaming. They didnt even manage that in 2014 with the best engine on the grid. You might also be forgetting the engineers and staff McLaren lost prior to that and how McLaren, with all that investment by Honda, was able to build that back up somewhat with key staff aquisitions...
Phil,
You're quite right about 2014. However, with 4th I was merely referring to their likely WCC position this season if they had the Renault engine instead of Honda.
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This is the sure deal that McLaren will have an engine that will be competitive next year. How you define competitive is subjective, but clearly McLaren will get an engine can could win races. That's fantastic news.
Whatever has been REALLY going on between McLaren engineers and Honda has lead to zero confidence. It's been bad enough for McLaren to go to the risk and trouble to shop engines, break and redraw contracts, lose hundreds of millions of dollars, lose exclusive license to run factory fresh engines from a dedicated engine manufacturer who is giving it all they have and wants to stay. A group of board members all majority agreed it was better to do this, than to stay. Wow.
Wazari has been an outstanding and incredibly humble intel provider from the position of Honda. I personally have really appreciated his input to this situation. I wish we had Wazari's equal from someone inside McLaren as that would really help triangulate the situation, and bring some understanding to such a massive competitive risk being undertaken.
Alonso, IMO, his role in this was simply a vote. He had a strong vote, but only a vote only nonetheless. Something like this, what could be catastrophic to a championship winning team, goes way, way beyond anything Fred could finally influence. The McLaren board would not and could not be pushed around by a driver. McLaren would not be the successful team they are with the ability to withstand the last four years being run by weak minded board members. It must be assumed they looked at every possible option -- and these are successful, smart, seasoned businessmen -- so I'm assuming the decision is a good one with reasonable, manageable risk and a positive outcome projected. They would not have acted this way if it was in any way otherwise all regardless of what Fred thinks.
It's absolutely certain none of us really know what McLaren's chassis is capable of with the lack of horsepower they have had over a race distance and at at full tilt quali because every aero engineering decision each race weekend has been based on compromised engine mappings and managing engine output. We simply don't have enough to know really what is going on with their chassis because even McLaren could not ultimately know. Therefore, I for one am ecstatic to see two well funded and organized team chassis go head to head with identical engines. With a barometer like RedBull, what more could we ask and when will this happen again?
To be honest I think the move also has a lot to do with reintroducing hard core competition to the McLaren engineers who for years now have been impotized by a troubled engine. I think this is McLaren saying "Hey team, let's put up or shut up!", and any team worth their salt will relish such an opportunity to go head to head no excuses with a top brass team--especially one under the lead of Newey. Excellence breeds excellence and this will only make McLaren a better team after years now compromising. I'm sure even their development progress has been shaped by having to make up for lack of engine power. Not anymore.
It will be outstanding to see RedBull and McLaren go head to head, and as far as I'm concerned it will be like a second championship within the 2018 championship. Can't wait to see PP put to the test against AN with a driver that can pull everything out of a chassis. I'm so excited to see Alonso with a proper powered car going every race against Max and Dan.
Just not sure about this move at the moment. There's so many potential things to consider.
1) Surely Honda will eventually get closer now and if they do, will Renault be much better than them (and hence is it worth losing the Honda money?)
2) Renault finally get it right and make the step to get right on Ferrari level minimum. McLaren fight for podiums.
3) Is this simply eradicating all things Ron Dennis (Honda)from Mansour Ojeh et al?
5) McLaren have somehow spent 3 years navigating from a Mercedes customer engine to a Renault customer engine. They've also just taken all the pain and handed Red Bull a works deal if they want it??
6) The 2021 scenario. New power units- so Honda would have caught up just about and then F1 bins the hybrids. McLaren can then choose a new manufacturer or create one in house?
Who knows how it will play out. For the sake of the sport, I hope both Renault and Honda come good and we somehow have competitive racing between now and 2021.
Exactly my thoughts
Point 5 is what hurts me more than anything, McLaren took all the pain for the development, and exactly when the fruits are growing, they make a prunning.... Were they really expecting a competitive PU in three seasons with first two restricted by tokens?
I know McLaren must know better than any of us, but to me taking all the pain of these three seasons, and now become a Renault customer team, has no sense at all. Add to that they´re providing RBR a golden oportunity to become a works team wich has been their dream since day 1 in F1, and sincerely, I can´t remind any other decision in F1 as stupid as this one. Harmfull for theirselves (McLaren third Renault customer team? Wasn´t this a winning team?), and probably great for one of their main competitors once Honda solve their problems...
Hopefully I´m wrong and Alonso become WDC in 2018 or 2019, but to me right now it´s a lot more plausible Alonso leaving F1 at the end of 2017 or 2018 seasons
Well we won't see the Spec 4 PU this year...........
If it's ready (or reasonably raceable, an improvement on Spec 3.x, even if not 100% perfect), shouldn't it be on track to get data and experience ? I don't see that the split makes any difference, I would imagine there's not much that McLaren would learn that Honda would want to keep secret. If it's in a sort-of 'last ditch, not really ready but we're desperate so let's try it anyway' state, then maybe they'd not bring it now, but otherwise why not ?
Last edited by bigblue on 13 Sep 2017, 09:27, edited 1 time in total.
lets see... i have a concern than the chassis also was helped a lot by the lowest weight engine on the grid! Mclaren were most likely the team capable of running more ballast for balancing the car....
Probably a good move for both if true. It will save Honda about $160 million not including the free PU's. It will be interesting if anyone steps up to cover that gap or if McLaren is going to run a much leaner budget compared to this year.
Well we won't see the Spec 4 PU this year...........
Save Honda the free PUs? Do you think STR will be paying their Honda PUs?
Logically speaking is it not in Honda's interest to prove them (McLaren) wrong? By introducing spec4 that actually good "this is what you're going to miss" kind of thing?
Switching to Renault might not win them races but should allow them to finish races on a more regular basis and take less penalties on the grid which I think k us what's really driving Alonso crazy if he knew he could push an engine all race without it blowing up he would almost certainly be happier
Looking forward to seeing what happens next season, i think McLaren will be in a similar position to Red Bull, they will have a car that can take advantage of the 2 Mercs and 2 Ferr making mistakes and be a thorn in the side of RB... Maybe
Renault have a long history, they had one season of a turd engine and sorted it out for the next although it was not perfect, it was still able to give RB some results.
I also hear of alot of conflict between McL and Hon so its maybe better to split for those reasons too.
Redbull has not fear of mclaren having a renault engine. because the reality is redbull is the best chassis. next year i dont think much will change mclaren probably be in the midfield behind top 3 or more below
Renault will put McLaren further up the grid next year but no closer to a title challenge, if RB can't give Mercedes a run for their money I can't see McLaren doing much better.
This is the sure deal that McLaren will have an engine that will be competitive next year. How you define competitive is subjective, but clearly McLaren will get an engine can could win races. That's fantastic news.
Whatever has been REALLY going on between McLaren engineers and Honda has lead to zero confidence. It's been bad enough for McLaren to go to the risk and trouble to shop engines, break and redraw contracts, lose hundreds of millions of dollars, lose exclusive license to run factory fresh engines from a dedicated engine manufacturer who is giving it all they have and wants to stay. A group of board members all majority agreed it was better to do this, than to stay. Wow.
Wazari has been an outstanding and incredibly humble intel provider from the position of Honda. I personally have really appreciated his input to this situation. I wish we had Wazari's equal from someone inside McLaren as that would really help triangulate the situation, and bring some understanding to such a massive competitive risk being undertaken.
You won't find a McLaren insider, when you join McLaren you sign a LIFETIME Non disclosure agreement. That they enforce and play hard ball with. Although I understand most F1 teams insist on NDA being signed and fully enforced.
Last edited by Del Boy on 13 Sep 2017, 14:57, edited 1 time in total.
Mclaren might get back with Honda, who knows. Alonso will be gone by then and the situation will calm down a bit. Rumors of Porche buying Redbull team/Supplying Redbull with engines is gathering pace, so if Mclaren is looking for works partnership with Porche beyond 2020, they might be left disappointed. And unless the Bahraini owners pour tons of money, they won't be making their own engines. Their Roadcar V8's are modified Nissans.
Toyota will be leaving WEC due to lack of competition and head over to FE, Honda might take a different route and buy Torro-Rosso to be a Manufacturer in F1. More Promotion, More money from FIA and they wont have to put up with a whining "Partner"
