2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[Shakeman]

One of the most consistent defences of Honda in this thread is that they've had less development time than other manufacturers.

If McLaren struggle against Red Bull next year how reasonable will it be to say it's down to McLaren having to develop and tune their chassis to a new engine design compared to Red Bull's experience with it?

They have a driver that brings six tenths so there's really no excuses any more for coming anything lower than 5th every race.

[Mikey05021984]

Maybe a stupid question, but would this engine change from Honda to Renault mean that McLaren will have to change the livery of the car again?

[Andres125sx]

alonso was reason why mclaren ditch honda. alonso gave the ultimatom for mclaren to drop honda if they are to retain him . mclaren listened to him . alonso is the last person to listen. he made terrible decision. and this could be another. shame

Do you really think McLaren F1 Team will make that crucial decision based on the opinion of one of his drivers???

Even Alonso said his is only one vote from the thousand McLaren employees

Mclaren and Alonso share same target, becoming WDC and WCC. If Alonso is frustrated, you can be sure McLaren is even more worried, as Alonso continue receiving his big salary, while McLaren public image is going south, sponsors interst on McLaren is far from what it was before Honda, and the money they´re receiving dropped significantly when they dropped from 5th in 2013 and 2014 to 9th in 2015, 6th in 2016 and 9th currently

I support Alonso, but assuming his opinion is that relevant in McLaren is pure fanboyism

[Andres125sx]

Maybe a stupid question, but would this engine change from Honda to Renault mean that McLaren will have to change the livery of the car again?

Hopefully!!!

[FrukostScones]

I reallly think this divorce is digraceful by McLaren, but I think they will be just fine in 2018 with Renault PU and not too far off RB and definitely in front of Renault works team.
Honda PU will be much better in 2018, but having seen this 2017 TR draggy junkmobile (see Monza!) , I don't think they will win a lot with this last minute swap in 2018. Gonna be a year of private testing Honda PU for RB. Really bad deal for Honda unless 2019 RB deal will materialize from it. If Porsche comes... Game Over anyway for RB-Honda me thinks. unless the PU works great and Williams could also become a customer/works.
PS. and don't think Honda buying Faenza team would make much sense.

[proteus]

Both parties did their own shares of mistakes right from the start. Dennis pushed the entering for atlest a year too soon. What he should do was to stay with Mercedes for one more year, take a physicall look what Honda has made and if it would be catastrophic as it was testing at the end of the 2014 season, he should hold back and apply at the Mercedes for jet another year and so on. I think the team believed too much to Hondas engineers, or birocrats about how they can make a good engine and when the situation was allready happening it was too late to act.

Honda made the greatest mistake to except the push from the Mclaren and jump into the sport atleast one year too early. The second mistake was the amount of funds they intended to invest and how to use that money. The third mistake was not negotiating with Mclaren and make a deal to give somewhat 20 million to Manor , or Caterham or even both of the teams to use them as aditional testing teams. I bet those two teams would happily except free engines and cash in their pockets - which they really really needed (maybe Mclaren blocked all the teams, no matter where they were in the field). The final mistake was their stubbornes and being not willing to get the outside help in time to save the situation. They started to do this this season after another catastrophic performance, but it is too late. Even if they start making steady progress they are probably deemed to be 3rd or 4th engine on the grid for atleast 2 seasons (look at Renault).

[les arcs]

Isn't it funny to assume that a data driven professionally run organization like Mclaren will take a decision of this magnitude in an arbitrary fashion?

Didn't Zak clearly mention that they will sit down with cleverer guys who know a thing or two about engine and take a call?

Mclaren have the data about what Honda have now and their plans for next season. I can understand people not liking the decision Mclaren have made and i respect that but Mclaren in my opinion have made a decision taking a plethora of factors in to consideration.

I can understand the sentiment that Honda may turn it around but Renault will also make progress for next year. After all they have already trained their focus completely on 2018, have three teams doing miles now and will be in preseason testing 2018.

According to Mclaren the progress Honda will likely make for next year is not going to be enough. Now their assessment will be based on a lot of facts and hard information available to them and merely on hunch that Honda ''may'' turn it around they cannot just jump in to next season and risk having another season languishing at the back of the grid with the Saubers.

I actually admire Honda for sticking around despite being rejected by Mclaren as it shows competitive spirit. In fact i myself would be keenly watching their progress next year as to how they will do. However i feel Mclaren simply could not wait any longer with motivation levels at an all time low, less points at this stage than in 2015, risk of technical staff deserting etc.

This was the problem:

They drew up a three-stage development plan to achieve this by an agreed deadline. The first step was scheduled for May's Spanish Grand Prix, the second for the Canadian GP in June, the third and final step - to match the estimated Mercedes customer engine output - was meant to arrive in time for August's Belgian Grand Prix.

Honda brought updates to each of these races, but they were not sufficient. As its F1 project leader Yusuke Hasegawa admitted in the FIA press conference at Spa, Honda "failed" in its task, and was now in breach of the development plan agreed with McLaren, opening the door for separation and severance.

Even with 'god' Illien ( ) they weren't hitting any targets.

Maybe the Illien input has'nt hit the tracks yet.....

[GoranF1]

I reallly think this divorce is digraceful by McLaren, but I think they will be just fine in 2018 with Renault PU and not too far off RB and definitely in front of Renault works team.
Honda PU will be much better in 2018, but having seen this 2017 TR draggy junkmobile (see Monza!) , I don't think they will win a lot with this last minute swap in 2018. Gonna be a year of private testing Honda PU for RB. Really bad deal for Honda unless 2019 RB deal will materialize from it. If Porsche comes... Game Over anyway for RB-Honda me thinks. unless the PU works great and Williams could also become a customer/works.
PS. and don't think Honda buying Faenza team would make much sense.

I think Honda will buy TR and Porsche RB.
Toyota will buy Sauber as soon as Honda buys TR.

[McL-H]

McLaren are a yoke!!! A joke!!

Seriously. I really think they make a horrible mistake. One I do not support.. Renault has been awful ever since the introduction of the V6. They already had an entire team, as they produced the V8's. They had 3 more years compared to Honda to develop a reliable and powerful engine.. yet, they are not far in front of Honda. It's not an improvement..

If they would trade in Honda for Mercedes, I might have had a different opinion towards the switch. But this.. it shows plain stupidity. I don't care too much, I have better priorities. But it is safe to say I'm a bit dissappointed

[ZakB]

McLaren are a yoke!!! A joke!!

Seriously. I really think they make a horrible mistake. One I do not support.. Renault has been awful ever since the introduction of the V6. They already had an entire team, as they produced the V8's. They had 3 more years compared to Honda to develop a reliable and powerful engine.. yet, they are not far in front of Honda. It's not an improvement..

If they would trade in Honda for Mercedes, I might have had a different opinion towards the switch. But this.. it shows plain stupidity. I don't care too much, I have better priorities. But it is safe to say I'm a bit dissappointed

They are not far in front of Honda? Explain. I suggest you read some of the quotes from the Autosport article that I posted.

[godlameroso]

I sincerely hope mclaren produce a great chassis next year.

Hope is lousy currency.

Calling others out on hope, but supporting Honda after three years of failing. Thank god, the horror of these fanboys is almost over.

There is no hoping, just knowledge that they will deliver eventually.

What effect would the 2017 Renault engine have on the 2017 McLaren, a half second per lap over current package? So they're throwing away free engines and €100m plus driver's salary to still be behind Red Bull, Ferrari, and Mercedes?

You seriously think it's a good deal to increase the financial burden to be best of the rest, fighting it out with Force India? And you think calling me a deluded fanboy will change the reality McLaren faces? If they want to win with a customer engine that's still behind the top power units, vs a works engine that is starting to make progress, that's fine, we're all entitled to learn from stupid mistakes.

[GoranF1]

https://twitter.com/alo_pumpa/status/908038545683689475

[Jacinto]

McLaren are a yoke!!! A joke!!

Seriously. I really think they make a horrible mistake. One I do not support.. Renault has been awful ever since the introduction of the V6. They already had an entire team, as they produced the V8's. They had 3 more years compared to Honda to develop a reliable and powerful engine.. yet, they are not far in front of Honda. It's not an improvement..

If they would trade in Honda for Mercedes, I might have had a different opinion towards the switch. But this.. it shows plain stupidity. I don't care too much, I have better priorities. But it is safe to say I'm a bit dissappointed

To be honest, it was a very conscious decision.

Mclarem accepted they cannot win a WDC or a WCC under current rules and opted to be a midfielder until 2021.

[ZakB]

Hope is lousy currency.

Calling others out on hope, but supporting Honda after three years of failing. Thank god, the horror of these fanboys is almost over.

There is no hoping, just knowledge that they will deliver eventually.

What effect would the 2017 Renault engine have on the 2017 McLaren, a half second per lap over current package? So they're throwing away free engines and €100m plus driver's salary to still be behind Red Bull, Ferrari, and Mercedes?

You seriously think it's a good deal to increase the financial burden to be best of the rest, fighting it out with Force India? And you think calling me a deluded fanboy will change the reality McLaren faces? If they want to win with a customer engine that's still behind the top power units, vs a works engine that is starting to make progress, that's fine, we're all entitled to learn from stupid mistakes.

It's a paid works engine and McLaren will assist hem and both use the same fuel. McLaren will gain much more than the half second per lap you're talking about (they are 60BPH down on Renault). The shareholders will close the hole in the budget for next year, so it's all good. I posted some great quotes about the relationship with Honda; three targets set for this year and they didn't hit a single one. It's hard taking your McLaren hate seriously with that Honda avatar, although I understand it must hurt supporting Toro Rosso next year. The draggy Toro Rosso with the Honda, sounds like a match made in heaven.

There is no hoping, just knowledge that they will deliver eventually.

Hope is lousy currency.

[godlameroso]

I've been working on Hondas for a while now. I don't hate McLaren, I just think it's a bad move, that's all. You didn't answer my question, what kind of improvement would the 2017 Renault engine have on the 2017 McLaren chassis? It would have to give them over a second per lap to be within reach of Red Bull, and lets face it, the Renault PU is not 1 second per lap faster than the Honda PU. If you think it is I'm not the delusional one.