Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Zynerji]

I think it's silly to not abuse the relationship from Hondas end.

Each car would run newest specs every weekend (even super minor updates) and eat the penalties for the track data.

Then feed it directly to STR/RBR for calibration of their 2018 design.

Take all the meat.

[McHonda]

Wazari wrote in the team topic that spec 4 will not hit the track this year, that means two things:

1) I was right about it getting delayed to 2018 like it was for the "Malesian update" last year
2) No real update this year, McLaren-Honda will suck until their very last moment.

I am guessing that if the divorce is real and it seems it is, then Honda will likely not release it to McLaren even if it's ready to go.
The update is real, but now Honda will concentrate on next season exclusively and no incentive to rush the Spec 4.

Passing up the chance for real on track verification,testing and development in favour of sitting on it all winter with no knowledge of it's success or failure, apart from the proven to be unreliable in-house testing methods, until it got put into a STR in pre-season would sum up everything wrong about Honda's return to F1 I'm afraid to say and explains perfectly why we are where we are.

You're describing a scenario where Honda effectively waste a winter with no idea how Spec 4 fared on track, so you can't improve on it with any degree of certainty or with any real world data. Or they could get as much on track data as possible on Spec 4 and have a productive winter improving on those known real world results. Hmm, tricky one.

Hopefully there are still some engineers there who realise the importance of real world testing after the shambles of last winter and smarter heads prevail and it's brought as soon as it's ready so they can have the best winter possible to improve on it using the real world data from the priceless on track testing the last half a dozen race weekends provide.

[harjan]

Yes, they should totally give up on reliability for the remainder of the season- just like they've done the rest of their partnership with McLaren.

BTW; Honda is signing up with Torro Rosso, not Red Bull. Yes, Red Bull will keep an eye on advancements but no Red Bull isn't going to technically assist Honda in any way.

[damager21]

Thank you for your kind words. I am confident that the Spec 4 will see the light of day, just probably not in a McLaren at this point.

Wazari-san would this be the case because Spec 4 won't be ready this year or Honda would not want McLaren to know the IP and other details about their latest engine which will supposedly will be a big step ahead?

If it is the later then I am not too convinced. Now that the divorce is almost a done deal, I would expect Honda to utilize all the future races for testing as many new components as possible trying to close the gap to Mercedes next year. There should zero pressure on Honda from McLaren so they must make the most of the available track time.

[loner]

Thank you for your kind words. I am confident that the Spec 4 will see the light of day, just probably not in a McLaren at this point.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2H-O ... /photo.jpg

Is a Toro Rosso Honda, crossing the bridge (? haha

nope just destroying A Bridge Too Far.

[MrPotatoHead]

Some of the comments here make me scratch my head.
Honda isn't going to do anything silly nor will they hold back things they hadn't already planned on running - why would they? They need all the forward progress they can get and all the testing they can get.

And why bash McLaren for giving up after a disastrous 3 years? Alonso is more valuable to McLaren than a failing engine.
And the proof is in the points - 212 vs 11. McLaren are making a good choice for next year.

[loner]

And why bash McLaren for giving up after a disastrous 3 years? Alonso is more valuable to McLaren than a failing engine.
And the proof is in the points - 212 vs 11. McLaren are making a good choice for next year.

is Mclaren more valuable to ALO ?!! he was in a Ferrari 5 years sweet bitterness , why you assume he is already Mclaren driver in 2018 ? what he will achieve ? nothing nada zilch zero .. Mclaren budget in 2018 will take a hit of 180m$ adios Honda welcome Renault.

[McMika98]

Thank you for your kind words. I am confident that the Spec 4 will see the light of day, just probably not in a McLaren at this point.
[/quote]

Wazari, how confident are you of Honda next season? Am i right to assume that spec 4 will still be down on performance to current Merc engines. I really had high hopes this year and kinda shocked when Hasegawa himself admitted that they didnt expect the competition to improve so much.

I hope they dont push it to next year wont as i fear they be playing catch up again like they have done for 3 frustating years and sensible heads will pull the plug.

[Wazari]

Without going into details, the roll-out of the "Spec 4" whether this season or next will not have the "teething" problems that this current PU had. It will have been more "seasoned" that any other PU even before it gets attached to the chassis. The chassis to PU relationship is the biggest unknown but typically not a big hurdle unless the layout and weight distribution deltas between the old/new PU's are significant.

I am confident that the next configuration PU will be a pleasant surprise. Also don't place too much credence to the HP deltas published by journalists. Some of the figures make me laugh out loud. As I said before, ERS management and fuel efficiency are the biggest hurdles now and the hurdles are getting much smaller.

[-wkst-]

As always. A lot of blalba, absolutely no proof, like the last 3 years.

I am not a McLaren fan, I am not a Honda fan, but when I hear that a team quits a works deal, loosing 100M+, something is totally wrong with this engine maker and their plans for the future. McLaren are no dummies, not as Honda they know how to succeed in modern F1.

Can't believe how naive the users here are, if McLaren saw a fair chance of competing at a decent level with Honda next year the would had stayed.

[Nicktendo86]

Without going into details, the roll-out of the "Spec 4" whether this season or next will not have the "teething" problems that this current PU had. It will have been more "seasoned" that any other PU even before it gets attached to the chassis. The chassis to PU relationship is the biggest unknown but typically not a big hurdle unless the layout and weight distribution deltas between the old/new PU's are significant.

I am confident that the next configuration PU will be a pleasant surprise. Also don't place too much credence to the HP deltas published by journalists. Some of the figures make me laugh out loud. As I said before, ERS management and fuel efficiency are the biggest hurdles now and the hurdles are getting much smaller.

I mean, we've heard this all before. Multiple times.

[nzjrs]

I mean, we've heard this all before. Multiple times.

Perhaps, but Wazari's batting average is quite a bit higher than other sources.

[kasio]

Without going into details, the roll-out of the "Spec 4" whether this season or next will not have the "teething" problems that this current PU had. It will have been more "seasoned" that any other PU even before it gets attached to the chassis. The chassis to PU relationship is the biggest unknown but typically not a big hurdle unless the layout and weight distribution deltas between the old/new PU's are significant.

I am confident that the next configuration PU will be a pleasant surprise. Also don't place too much credence to the HP deltas published by journalists. Some of the figures make me laugh out loud. As I said before, ERS management and fuel efficiency are the biggest hurdles now and the hurdles are getting much smaller.

I mean, we've heard this all before. Multiple times.

OK. There is Renault engine thread! I havent heard thit multiple times before. this is about spec 4.

[ZakB]

I mean, we've heard this all before. Multiple times.

Perhaps, but Wazari's batting average is quite a bit higher than other sources.

He's proven wrong various times.

[harjan]

With all due respect to Wazari; for someone who is retired (and moved if I remember correctly)- he's still quite up to date.

In a world of 100% secrecy I've always wondered why Honda would let one of their engineers publish inside information.

BTW; apparently Renault have shown Red Bull the door, after 2018 they won't be supplying them anymore. So whatever Zak Brown has done, he's done a good job to make sure RB doesn't have the luxury of choosing whether to go Renault or Honda.