Honda F1 project leader Yusuke Hasegawa has outlined a number of reasons why Honda has been struggling so badly in the beginning of the 2017 Formula One season. He confirmed that lots of problems were not discovered while running on the dynamo meter.
It's hard to believe because it makes everything Hasegawa said about the different Specs since pre-season complete gibberish and nonsense. You can believe what you want of course. On the points...Cannonballer wrote: ↑16 Sep 2017, 05:35Why is this so hard to believe given that Mclaren: 1) asked and/or agreed to have Honda to enter a year earlier than was wise, 2) insisted on size 0 packaging, and 3) has not been producing great chassis for a while (i.e. their results at Monaco)?McHonda wrote: ↑16 Sep 2017, 00:39Complete and utter nonsense. Spec 4, Illiens's Spec with the entire new ICE by the way, isn't even ready now. If it was they would have brought it to us to save the partnership they were desperate to keep going. Instead we got drips labelled 3.whatever.Wazari wrote: ↑15 Sep 2017, 22:17
Well the following is fiction and for entertainment purposes only:
The answer to your questions overall is yes to 1 and 2. #2 is where Mercedes is superior to everyone else at this time. #4 (you have #2 twice) is not that simple. The ES still may be powering K unit when TC is at full boost. Spec 4 focused on many areas including what you mentioned, but primarily a more efficient combustion process.
Now that everyone knows McLaren wanted out before the season started, I feel better that Honda didn't push McLaren harder into using Spec 4 at the start of this season. Someone asked why Spec 4 wasn't used at the start. It could have been run at winter testing. That you would have to ask Mr. Boullier, that was their decision.
I am surprised and not surprised at this split. I think it will be difficult for both McLaren and STR in 2018 as PU-chassis integration is not as easy as most people think. It's not just bolting up a PU to your chassis. I think STR will welcome the infusion of cash that Honda will bring. I am surprised that McLaren quit Honda so soon. To me this was really year one. Also I don't care what any company spokesperson from either side says, I have documentation that Honda did not want to go with the "Size Zero" concept for 2015. 2017 should have been 2015. Oh well, what's done is done. I could spend hours talking about how good or bad McLaren's chassis is based on race telemetry but now it's a moot point. Good luck to both STR and McLaren. Honda is on the right track.
I hope the STR fans enjoy the fairytales being spun around here next year but this is one thing I wont miss, sorry. I do need a new name though...
If they were to make their "own" engines I'm sure they would jus thave Ricardo do it. That's who makes their road car engines. And they know a thing or two about engines.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑16 Sep 2017, 04:05McLaren dont have the money to do it and It would be crap if they tried. It takes tremendous amount of money experience past data libraries and infrastructure to build a competitive engine. Even if McLaren start now they would have to figure out who they need to hire and how to build an engine facility first... Even before those people up with an engine design. It is far easier for them to entice a new engine maker or just kneel down to mercedes.
Some thought my post is idiotic, however wazari confirm my concern as well. Hmmm Lets pray RB give them blessing too, not via toxic strategy but pushing in good Way.Wazari wrote: ↑15 Sep 2017, 22:17Well the following is fiction and for entertainment purposes only:Del Boy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2017, 16:10Maybe Wazari can confirm or deny if Honda have been working towards these goals? And if spec 4.0 is close to achieving this?
1. The MGUH can provide 2MJ of power into the ES every lap
2. The MGUH can provide the MGUK with 120kW for every second the ICE is at or near WOT
2. The MGUK can provide ???kW (I believe 40kW) of power to keep the turbine spooled during the off throttle phase
3. The ES only needs to provide power for the MGUK when the turbine needs spooling and the ICE is not at full boost pressure
These must be the targets what you achieve is another story, this is the F1 formula for the engine. In other words the MGUK should be providing 120kW when ever the loud pedal is being pushed this in COMBINATION with the ICE is the amount of power to the gearbox/wheels. Hybrid engines are very complex and compound Turbo charging has many compromises, but running the MGUK throughout the lap is essential.
The answer to your questions overall is yes to 1 and 2. #2 is where Mercedes is superior to everyone else at this time. #4 (you have #2 twice) is not that simple. The ES still may be powering K unit when TC is at full boost. Spec 4 focused on many areas including what you mentioned, but primarily a more efficient combustion process.
Now that everyone knows McLaren wanted out before the season started, I feel better that Honda didn't push McLaren harder into using Spec 4 at the start of this season. Someone asked why Spec 4 wasn't used at the start. It could have been run at winter testing. That you would have to ask Mr. Boullier, that was their decision.
I am surprised and not surprised at this split. I think it will be difficult for both McLaren and STR in 2018 as PU-chassis integration is not as easy as most people think. It's not just bolting up a PU to your chassis. I think STR will welcome the infusion of cash that Honda will bring. I am surprised that McLaren quit Honda so soon. To me this was really year one. Also I don't care what any company spokesperson from either side says, I have documentation that Honda did not want to go with the "Size Zero" concept for 2015. 2017 should have been 2015. Oh well, what's done is done. I could spend hours talking about how good or bad McLaren's chassis is based on race telemetry but now it's a moot point. Good luck to both STR and McLaren. Honda is on the right track.
lower mid field (297); about 2 or 3kph down from the RBRs who were in the middle of the list (300).MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑16 Sep 2017, 07:34If they were to make their "own" engines I'm sure they would jus thave Ricardo do it. That's who makes their road car engines. And they know a thing or two about engines.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑16 Sep 2017, 04:05McLaren dont have the money to do it and It would be crap if they tried. It takes tremendous amount of money experience past data libraries and infrastructure to build a competitive engine. Even if McLaren start now they would have to figure out who they need to hire and how to build an engine facility first... Even before those people up with an engine design. It is far easier for them to entice a new engine maker or just kneel down to mercedes.
That's a big (unlikely) if though.
Back on topic - how did the speed trap numbers look during friday running?
I don't think that Mclaren interfere in the PU design decisions at all! This was a internal Honda decision as Wazari san may have hinted.drunkf1fan wrote: ↑16 Sep 2017, 12:10Wazari, the thing I don't understand here is, you're saying Spec 4 was a possibility for the start of the season but I can't see how that can be true if they are still delaying Spec 4. Okay you seem to be implying that Spec 4 will have gone through a sensible amount of testing by the time it's introduced but considering the reliability of everything leading up to spec 4, does that make any difference?
I would have to believe Mclaren were told before the start of the season that Honda have two different versions of the engine, one (apparently) notably faster than the other, neither confirmed for reliability but presumably the upside of the slower engine is they expected it to be more reliable. I can understand Mclaren taking the decision to use the slower more reliable engine. But considering they weren't limited by engine regulations effectively, why didn't they try the spec 4 in preseason and compare them, or B, switch to this unreliable faster spec 4 after 2 races when it turns out the more reliable slower engine is completely unreliable.
I can't come up with a way that spec 4 could have been used at the start of the season but wasn't, wasn't used in preseason and wasn't switched to at any point in the season up till now. if it's unreliable yet faster, they had nothing to lose by using it sooner and Honda had nothing to lose bringing it sooner.
Wazari said Honda offered them the choice of engines for the start of this year and Mclaren were insistent on the one they've taken, but that implies Spec 4 was in a state they believed ready enough to hit the start of the season with which makes no sense in so far as how bad the other engine is and why spec 4 is continually being pushed back. If Spec 4 was an option for the start of the season why wasn't it switched to very early on when the other option proved useless in performance and reliability.DFX wrote: ↑16 Sep 2017, 13:12I don't think that Mclaren interfere in the PU design decisions at all! This was a internal Honda decision as Wazari san may have hinted.drunkf1fan wrote: ↑16 Sep 2017, 12:10Wazari, the thing I don't understand here is, you're saying Spec 4 was a possibility for the start of the season but I can't see how that can be true if they are still delaying Spec 4. Okay you seem to be implying that Spec 4 will have gone through a sensible amount of testing by the time it's introduced but considering the reliability of everything leading up to spec 4, does that make any difference?
I would have to believe Mclaren were told before the start of the season that Honda have two different versions of the engine, one (apparently) notably faster than the other, neither confirmed for reliability but presumably the upside of the slower engine is they expected it to be more reliable. I can understand Mclaren taking the decision to use the slower more reliable engine. But considering they weren't limited by engine regulations effectively, why didn't they try the spec 4 in preseason and compare them, or B, switch to this unreliable faster spec 4 after 2 races when it turns out the more reliable slower engine is completely unreliable.
I can't come up with a way that spec 4 could have been used at the start of the season but wasn't, wasn't used in preseason and wasn't switched to at any point in the season up till now. if it's unreliable yet faster, they had nothing to lose by using it sooner and Honda had nothing to lose bringing it sooner.
That being one of the responses from Wazari on spec 4 being an option at the start, it seems Illien stopping working with Renault was reported in Feb 2017, reports he was working with Honda started in March 2017, rumoured strongly everywhere now is that Spec 4 has Illien working on it and will be the basis of the 2018 engine combined with the fact that Spec 4 still isn't ready suggests there is zero chance it was an option for the start of 2017 yet we have Wazari saying it was an option and Mclaren turned it down. Mclaren turning down a supposedly faster engine only makes sense if they are told another engine is slower but more reliable, the second that engine proves to have awful reliability there is no viable reason not to use Spec 4 if it's ready which is yet another indication it wasn't ready.Now that everyone knows McLaren wanted out before the season started, I feel better that Honda didn't push McLaren harder into using Spec 4 at the start of this season. Someone asked why Spec 4 wasn't used at the start. It could have been run at winter testing. That you would have to ask Mr. Boullier, that was their decision.
