Proximity Warning

[Shrieker]

https://youtu.be/lK3xdwph7Ms?t=278

Have transponders in all four corners of the car; front and rear wing edges will do I guess (I don't think the device has to be big). Have the teams pay for it, but it will be homologated by the FIA. The teams will have to demonstrate in scrutineering every weekend that the system works as intended.

Last weekend everyone was eager to blame driver [insert the driver you blame here] for the incident. The fact is however, once having chosen to squeeze the 2nd placed driver towards the inside wall, any driver would've caused the incident to occur, in one shape or another. Quite simply because they would've had no way of telling whether a third driver was involved on the far inside, obscured by the car in 2nd place. Maybe playing devil's advocate here a little. Maybe.

Any total cost of such a system over a season would probably have offset - for example the repairs Ferrari would need to perform on their cars. Not to mention the spectacle taking a big hit. Imagine P1 Kimi, P2 Maxstappen, P3 Vettel and P4 Ham after T1. That would've been something. Sure my fav. driver won, but it was dull as fuq. It could've happened in the final race of a title showdown too, and what a flop it would be.

[BrunoH]

terrible idea.. we want drama and real racing.... next thing you know, no driver.. because what the heck right!?!? lets just have the PC´s do it....

[Phil]

People are just frustrated when their driver of choice has a shunt. But the drama is what makes it such a spectacle sometimes.

[Just_a_fan]

Alternatively tell the drivers not to dive across the track when they have a bad start in an attempt to block someone else.

If it's an issue - and I don't think it is - then just make a rule that drivers must continue on a course parallel to the edge of the track for X-hundred metres after the start. Only deviations allowed are for overtaking of another car ahead.

Seriously, these guys are supposed to be the best racing drivers in the world (so F1 claims). They shouldn't need to be told not to crash in to each other!

[Shrieker]

Alternatively tell the drivers not to dive across the track when they have a bad start in an attempt to block someone else.

This is only one specific situation out of many.

If it's an issue - and I don't think it is

It has happened before too. And back then they had spare cars. Would you rather prefer half (or more) of the grid gone, and watch a race like Indy 2005 ?

Seriously, these guys are supposed to be the best racing drivers in the world (so F1 claims). They shouldn't need to be told not to crash in to each other!

Sometimes -as was the case this last weekend- you can't know what's exactly happening around you. It's just physically not possible. Maxstappen and Vettel would've both benefited awareness wise. In Indycar they have pit to car spotter via radio, with ovals being very dangerous with cars being in close proximity to each other all the time.

[taperoo2k]

All you'd end up creating is a very stale start procedure, it's down to the drivers race craft, senses and reflexes to make it safely through to the first corner off the start line.
Crashing is an inherent risk in F1, with various measures taken to mitigate it. Adding proximity sensors would be the wrong thing to do, they make sense for road cars but not for
F1.

[Shrieker]

All you'd end up creating is a very stale start procedure

This is not to prevent drivers from racing... It's to provide them more awareness as to what's happening around them. I thought that much was clear...

[wesley123]

They do not need awareness as an F1 car has no real blind spots, the worst part of the car would be the front wing.

But more importantly; How do you expect this to work? The driver would need feedback in some way to know the proximity of other cars around him, and considering how a start works, 50% of the field would get warnings from all four corners of the car.

This does not solve anything as it would not be a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. Dealing with the feedback will most likely take your focus off where it is most needed; the track. And considering the reason you gave this idea, how would it work for a car behind a car? For the car on the left, how does he get his feedback to know there is another car next to the car he is close to on the right? And how does the guy know there are two cars next to him on the left? The crash most likely would not have happened if either Vettel or Raikkonen would not have been there. So even in an ideal situation where everything works perfectly, it still does not solve the problem it was developed for.

And perhaps the most important in this case; It does not solve the aggressiveness of the driver.

[adrianjordan]

My simple little Ford Focus has blind spot warning lights in the side mirrors, perhaps something as simple as that so that drivers know when another car is in their blindspot?

Wouldn't be hard to implement and would avoid some of the more foolish crashes we've had in recent years.

[Shrieker]

@Wesley,

From 2/3 of your post, I got the impression that you did not watch the video i linked to, and you did not really care to read my posts...

But more importantly; How do you expect this to work? The driver would need feedback in some way to know the proximity of other cars around him, and considering how a start works, 50% of the field would get warnings from all four corners of the car.

It can be calibrated to work within a set distance. Eg: 1, 0.75 or 0.5 meters. The system can also provide a 'tone' like a sidewinder missile tone to denote the closing rate between cars. But you don't have to have even that much complexity. A simple warning to Vettel as "three wide, you re on the right" would've instantly stopped him veering towards Kimi and Max. Likewise, a warning to Kimi would've prevented him veering to the right... Every other issue raised in your message have been addressed in my earlier posts.

Regarding driving aggression; the drivers would more than likely adapt their skills to work in conjunction with the system.

@adrian,

For the Ferrari drivers it was much worse than a simple blind spot. Vettel certainly had no way of telling whether there was another car on the other side of Max. And likewise, Kimi too.

[Shrieker]

One other thing. You could introduce a delay to the system where it warns the driver after a set amount of time has been spent side by side first. So the drivers don't get instant warnings too often. Which could still have prevented last weekends crash or a similar one.

[wesley123]

@Wesley,

From 2/3 of your post, I got the impression that you did not watch the video i linked to, and you did not really care to read my posts...

Unless there are posts that are only hidden for me I did not miss anything, so I do not know what would have given the impression that "I did not really care to read your posts"

It can be calibrated to work within a set distance. Eg: 1, 0.75 or 0.5 meters. The system can also provide a 'tone' like a sidewinder missile tone to denote the closing rate between cars. But you don't have to have even that much complexity. A simple warning to Vettel as "three wide, you re on the right" would've instantly stopped him veering towards Kimi and Max. Likewise, a warning to Kimi would've prevented him veering to the right...

Okay, so how is that system going to give a warning like that if it is only a proximity sensor?

Every other issue raised in your message have been addressed in my earlier posts.

Actually, no it did not. It hasn't gone much further than you telling how great it is and that it would prevented last weekends' crash.

For example; "For the car on the left, how does he get his feedback to know there is another car next to the car he is close to on the right?" has not been answered in any of your posts beforehand, and neither were the other points for that matter.

Regarding driving aggression; the drivers would more than likely adapt their skills to work in conjunction with the system.

Not really as it was aggression that was the problem, where it was completely unnecessary considering his championship position.

[Jolle]

Wouldn't this count as a driver assist? This is for me also one of the differences between the fast drivers and the good racers. Spacial awareness is one of the things that makes a fast driver a great racer. Guys like Hamilton seems to excel in this (not always, I can remember a few incidents from 2011 where he was off). I want races like Monaco 2016, where HAM gave RIC just enough room and not that they will move until their light blinks.

Yes we were robbed from a great fight last weekend but with a system like you suggest he could have moved left until he got a bleep in his ear and that is not racing.

[notsofast]

Probably difficult to implement without false positives. At the start, cars are always close together, which means that the alarm would pretty much always go off. If you tweak it so that it only goes off when the cars are about to collide, then it's probably too late for the driver to react anyway. The entire Singapore incident probably happened in less than a second.

[Shrieker]

Jolle,

Agree pretty much everything in your post, except this bit:

Spacial awareness is one of the things that makes a fast driver a great racer.

Vettel couldn't have seen Kimi on the far left. It was just physically not possible. There was Maxstappen's car in the middle blocking the view. Same goes for Kimi. You're gonna get the same problem whenever there's a three wide. For side by side racing involving only 2 cars I get it, it should be down to the drivers, and drivers alone. However, every now and then you'll get a situation where it's impossible to tell who is where. Like last weekend.