Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[63l8qrrfy6]

By the time they introduce spec 4 all other team will have introduced next season's spec.

All manufacturers bar Honda already have a few months of solid development on next year's engines.

When pre season testing starts Honda will once again find themselves massively down on power and reliability.

Realistically they need to achieve a 300% increase in durability and a good few % increase in power. That will not happen next year, in fact I would be surprised if it happens by the end of 2020.

[harjan]

Honda will never run 'Spec 4', not this year, not next year. Current engine will be platform from which they develop onto next year.

Uhh......... I don't think you understand what spec4 really is.

it's the 'Wazari' path that Honda didn't choose to run, not?

[Dimi]

Why is the fuel piping going into the valve cover (on the left side)?

I see the cam driven pump on the right.(or maybe it's just something else bolted to the valve cover?) but.. look.. no fuel lines to be seen otherwise? hmm..

Those spark plugs might be combination injectors.. TJI... with an internal passage built into the valve cover that goes into the injectors from there?

Or maybe i am just crazy, and the injector are side entry hidden from view..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLXW2BfUEAEAY3Y.jpg

In this photo you can see two cables running into each coil. Maybe one for the plug and the other for the injector.
Any idea what is the armored cable at the right side of each coil?

[Skippon]

In Cylinder Pressure Sensors

[ArcticWolfie]

By the time they introduce spec 4 all other team will have introduced next season's spec.

All manufacturers bar Honda already have a few months of solid development on next year's engines.

When pre season testing starts Honda will once again find themselves massively down on power and reliability.

Realistically they need to achieve a 300% increase in durability and a good few % increase in power. That will not happen next year, in fact I would be surprised if it happens by the end of 2020.

Maybe you missed something.. there's spec 4 and there's spec 4 which will be introduced next year for TR. And we might see an upgraded engine this year, if Honda wants to.

[63l8qrrfy6]

By the time they introduce spec 4 all other team will have introduced next season's spec.

All manufacturers bar Honda already have a few months of solid development on next year's engines.

When pre season testing starts Honda will once again find themselves massively down on power and reliability.

Realistically they need to achieve a 300% increase in durability and a good few % increase in power. That will not happen next year, in fact I would be surprised if it happens by the end of 2020.

Maybe you missed something.. there's spec 4 and there's spec 4 which will be introduced next year for TR. And we might see an upgraded engine this year, if Honda wants to.

I don't think I'm missing anything. I've not mentioned anything about any particular spec - it would be completely pointless.

Honda is still picking up penalties for small silly failures and they don't even have very high mileage engines where high cycle fatigue of highly loaded components comes into play.

They've been saying they will catch up with Renault for a while now yet look at the gap to Redbull.

The way I see it is that for Honda to develop a better engine than Renault they require a bigger step change than what Ferrari achieved over the winter - and that was a miracle.

[restless]

One can claim that currently Renault and Honda engines are almost equal

[PlatinumZealot]

Alonso took a new engine before qualifying. The engine does not look to be more powerful so i am assuming it is still Spec 3.7. We wont see the Spec four till Austin then. Two more weeks of development is a good thing i guess.

[PlatinumZealot]

One can claim that currently Renault and Honda engines are almost equal

Some speed data (yes i know) averages among the car hints that Renault is closer to Ferrari than Honda is to Renault. Taking abouy race mode.

[restless]

I agree Renault engine is better
But to claim 1sec lost to RB only on engine, and then to be faster than Renault & TR in Suzuka...the engine is not so much worse

[ArcticWolfie]

By the time they introduce spec 4 all other team will have introduced next season's spec.

All manufacturers bar Honda already have a few months of solid development on next year's engines.

When pre season testing starts Honda will once again find themselves massively down on power and reliability.

Realistically they need to achieve a 300% increase in durability and a good few % increase in power. That will not happen next year, in fact I would be surprised if it happens by the end of 2020.

Maybe you missed something.. there's spec 4 and there's spec 4 which will be introduced next year for TR. And we might see an upgraded engine this year, if Honda wants to.

I don't think I'm missing anything. I've not mentioned anything about any particular spec - it would be completely pointless.

Honda is still picking up penalties for small silly failures and they don't even have very high mileage engines where high cycle fatigue of highly loaded components comes into play.

They've been saying they will catch up with Renault for a while now yet look at the gap to Redbull.

The way I see it is that for Honda to develop a better engine than Renault they require a bigger step change than what Ferrari achieved over the winter - and that was a miracle.

The Renault had tons of hydraulic failures in the first half of the season, usually during the FPs, Honda haven't had that many ICE failures yet.
It's been mostly MGU-H, Turbo MGU-K, ERS failures anyway that seems to be solved for now...

Anyway I think the current Honda engine is too "light" to be reliable and that's why they want to make it heavier, but the concept stays about the same that's why I think it's going to workout next year.

Ferrari managed to get the double anchor injectors working, the guy who invented that got promoted to the engine development team @ Fiat straight away (which is a pretty amazing feat).

I agree Renault engine is better
But to claim 1sec lost to RB only on engine, and then to be faster than Renault & TR in Suzuka...the engine is not so much worse

Agreed, qualification stats:
Speed trap: https://www.fia.com/file/62190/download?token=36KPhDco
Maximum speed: https://www.fia.com/file/62191/download?token=OtvNzUqD
Best Sector times: https://www.fia.com/file/62188/download?token=D4XywvHH

[loner]

you guys forgot the huge hit the PU took in Singapore TBH i was surprised it raced in Malaysia during Singapore race i saw lots of things going down from the PU before ALO retired
anyway its not that important of a matter all eyes will be looking for COTA for the spec 4 debut

[63l8qrrfy6]

The Renault had tons of hydraulic failures in the first half of the season, usually during the FPs, Honda haven't had that many ICE failures yet.
It's been mostly MGU-H, Turbo MGU-K, ERS failures anyway that seems to be solved for now...

Anyway I think the current Honda engine is too "light" to be reliable and that's why they want to make it heavier, but the concept stays about the same that's why I think it's going to workout next year.

Ferrari managed to get the double anchor injectors working, the guy who invented that got promoted to the engine development team @ Fiat straight away (which is a pretty amazing feat).

First of all the double anchor was speculation and I don't remember it ever being confirmed. It was meant to be tested halfway through this season, after Ferrari had already delivered a massive increase in performance and reliability.

Secondly Renault is much closer to running engines for the whole 5 races (if they haven't done so already). Honda is still struggling to get past the 2 race mark on average.

[j.yank]

If we compare best McLaren sectors 1 and 2 from today qualification to Red Bull best 1 and 2 sectors, we will see that in sector 1 (most chassis demanding) McLaren is down 0.5 sec to Red Bull, and in sector 2 (most power demanding) McLaren is down 0.7 sec to Red Bull. If these 0.7 sec are pure Honda deficit, this means, that McLaren chassis can compensate only 0.2 sec in sector 1. Based on this, I highly doubt that McLaren can get close to Red Bull next year. Today's hydraulic failure doesn't mean nothing.

[1158]

So apparently ALO PU didn't fail, they just couldn't find the leak in time and opted to swap the PU.

How many races has VAN's PU been running for now?

Also I think comparing RB and McLaren to try and figure out the gap due to the PU is flawed. We don't know the downforce levels the cars are running. McLaren may have as good a chassis as RB but have to run less downforce so they don't lose a ton of time in the power sections. A lot harder to pass in the downforce sections even if the sector difference is a second. I'm not saying that is what's going on and I'm not sure the McLaren chassis is equal to RB but I am pretty confident the Honda PU has not closed down the gap to the Renault PU at this point.