Night race lighting?

[joseff]

Jesus shut up about heat in the tires, visibility and such. It hasn't affected cars in any other series so why the hell would it in F1? Night racing has gone on for DECADES!

Okay now we're waaaay off the lighting discussion. But yes night racing sure does affect the tyres. In the Qatar MotoGP race the Bridgestone racers weren't able to cope with the cold, while the Michelin riders did clearly better.

While F1 runs identical rubber, night racing would definitely tilt the balance between mech grip vs aero grip. And may spell trouble for cars that can't generate enough heat into the tyres (eg Williams at Sepang)

Now can we get back to lighting? Pretty please?

[checkered]

I hold everyone here in good esteem, but for the life of me I can't understand why in the hell the so called 'problems/difficulties' are being discussed. They aren't the first cars to race at night, and all of these 'concerns' are flat out stupid and ridiculous.

Sure, the cars can

go around an artificially illuminated track and appear to be doing so very quickly indeed. A Super Aguri, when observed blasting by from a suitable distance won't invoke the adjective "slow", no matter what the TV presenters might say during the races. Yipee. I was merely thinking in terms of getting into the points/podium, something which I gather is of great interest to the teams. The margins in the differences of speed that determine that are truly minuscule. There's possibly a very real conflict of interest in designing a car that is generally easy on the tyres and also fast in cooler conditions. Variations in the wheel shroud designs? Special wheels with different conductivity? Something for the engineers to ponder as pretty soon half the races could be held after dark, anything to gain an edge ... however small.

[bar555]

I like the night race idea but can anyone estimate the amount of electrical energy needed to illuminate a track This is not an eco-friendly trend of F1 , i think . Also the cost will rise a lot .

So the new rules will make the cars friendlier to environment and reduce team 's cost . =D>

but .........what about races themselves Hosting a GP is constantly becoming more and more expensive ( ticket price will rise up ) and night races will be hostile to the surrounding environment ( animal 's and plant 's behaviour can be serious disturbed in Montreal & Melbourne ) [-X

Bernie and Max ....... people of Mars

[mx_tifoso]

This is not an eco-friendly trend of F1 , i think . Also the cost will rise a lot.

I would say F1's 'green goals" are mainly set for the cars. Since it appears that they are doing very little (or nothing) in other areas of the sport. It's obvious that night races are not "eco friendly", since it only adds to the amount of electricity and fuel needed to stage a GP already. And not only will the noise be moved to a later time in the day (possibly affecting the surrounding neighborhoods), but light pollution will be immense as well (which already is a huge issue around the globe).

I wish I could understand what is going on the minds of the the FIA, but it is completely out of reach for me. Theres just no consistency anywhere to be seen.

[Ciro Pabón]

I like the night race idea but can anyone estimate the amount of electrical energy needed to illuminate a track This is not an eco-friendly trend of F1 , i think . Also the cost will rise a lot .

It's 3 Megawatts, I think, or I remember vaguely to have read that figure. I also remember to have read 1.5 MWatts, don't know why.

Anyway, as everything in engineering, is the total result what has a meaning, not just a part of the machinery.

So, I make this quick calculation:

If, I don't know, 80 million people watch the race in Europe and America, the couple of bulbs on their nightstands they do NOT light, because the race happens during the day, would save you, let's see, 120 watts times 80 million people... that is 10.000 Megawatts. I did not take in account the cup of coffe they won't make because it's not 3 a.m....

You get that with an investment of only 3 Megawatts, not to mention the light contamination, as mx_tifosi says, that you will avoid.

If you wish, I can make a press release about it (FIA states: we will shut down 10 electric plants tonight in Europe, thanks to Fernando Alonso!), proclaiming how green F1 is...

As green as dollar bills, if you ask me, as Spencifer_Murphy notes.

Ray is right about races of, ehem, lesser series being held at night. However, Ray, the first time I have taken every one of my kids to a stadium, I've made a point of going to a night game.

You should have seen the face of my kid when we went out of the tunnel and the sound and lighting of the stadium entered into his very soul, a few weeks ago... definitely, it's not the same as during the day.

I think tarzoon understands that those that proclaim that the stadium-style artificial light is the same as the sunlight, are idiots that devote themselves to selling light fixtures (and not very well). Lights can shine with the same intensity or have the same spectrum, but people has understood for ages how strange and inspiring is the atmosphere in a stadium or track at night: even the Circus Maximus, in Rome, 20 centuries ago, held night races, long before NASCAR. I hope somebody understands this issue and give us artificial light that is not as hard as the one we have in a TV studio.

Everything will be different: the light, the wind, the temperature, even the smell of the night: perhaps the stars will influence the outcome. We only hope it does not rain.

[joseff]

If, I don't know, 80 million people watch the race in Europe and America, the couple of bulbs on their nightstands they do NOT light, because the race happens during the day, would save you, let's see, 120 watts times 80 million people... that is 10.000 Megawatts. I did not take in account the cup of coffe they won't make because it's not 3 a.m....

Europe has a population of 712 million, so assuming 80 million households watch F1 is probably a bit off... I'm going to say 10 million, times your 120W. That makes 1200MW, still huge compared to the 3MW lighting.

Look at it another way: an F1 car makes 550kW peak. So let's just say for argument's sake that they put out 200kW on average. So 3MW is the power needed to run 15 F1 cars. Still a drop in the bucket compared to all the spectators' driving to the track.

Plus, all the light might actually make the plants photosynthesize, cleaning up the night air a bit

[Ciro Pabón]

joseff, joseff... sigh. When will you people learn that I'm never wrong? And, as the mexican song goes, I'm never wrong, and when I'm wrong, I'm enchanting... ("Yo nunca pierdo, y cuando pierdo, arrebato").

First, I said viewers, you say households. They are the same: you know and I know we're the only ones at our "households" that watch the races. Let's be frank, our wives and girlfriends hate cordially F1 (Principessa is a huge exception, she's one of the few women I know that can distinguish a diffuser from an elephant).

My wife, for example, twitches a little when she hears the word "NASCAR". Her only comment about the races is "How many laps to go?", followed by a rolling of eyes no matter what I answer. She thinks that one-lap races would be perfect.

Second, Germany alone had 7 million people viewing races in 2005. Spain had 5 million, Italy had 6.6, France had 4. That's 22 million people in 3 little ugly countries (France, Italy and Germany) and a big, beautiful one (Spain).

Multiply that by the 172 countries (I think ) that belong now to the EU, including Outer Nagorno-Karabagh, divide by the photosynthesizing factor and you'll get 80 million, down to the last decimal.

If you want to dispute rating figures and the impecable FIA methodology to deduce them, talk to Bernie, he'll deal with you in a quiet way...

Anyway, slightly on thread, I'm so intrigued about the "projectors" mentioned that I wrote a letter to Mr. Maioli. I'll post if he answers.

[Steven]

I came across a drawing that sketches the lightning system and points out a few things.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/teohyc/2416117348/sizes/l/

[Belatti]

Is Le Mans circuit illuminated? Why? So...
What about transforming a F1 nosecone into a headlight? (Not a chinese one, just to make Ray happy )

... Let's be frank, our wives and girlfriends hate cordially F1 (Principessa is a huge exception, she's one of the few women I know that can distinguish a diffuser from an elephant).

My wife, for example, twitches a little when she hears the word "NASCAR". Her only comment about the races is "How many laps to go?", followed by a rolling of eyes no matter what I answer. She thinks that one-lap races would be perfect.

The "rolling of eyes no matter what I answer" is completely true!

Principessa is unique!

Ciro, your wife thinks that one-lap races would be perfect just because she doesn´t know rally!

[rghai6]

What about transforming a F1 nosecone into a headlight?

I second what Ciro says,about the atmosphere at the night races being more exciting and charged.

I think the Delhi GP in 2010 should be a night race as well. Knowledge of the sport here in India is limited. Having the race at night would imho draw more crowds here compared to that during the day. People here would be more attracted to the fact that it is a night race than the race itself.

[mx_tifoso]

I think you may have stumbled upon an important issue about the growth into the Middle East and Asia 'rghai6', I'm refering to the last sentence in your above post. And it may be seen as an opportunity, or a disapointment (probably depending on what geographical area you live in or are from, and whether it is affecting your bank account or not); that many people might attend Formula One night races simply because of the scheduled time, and not because of their enjoyement of the actual sport itself.

This will most likely lead to an increase in ignorant and unknowledgeable so-called fans of Formula One, who will pollute many forums and discussions around the globe with their single-tracked minds filled with fanatic rants and statements about their 'idolized' driver or team, while having little or no understanding of the past, present, and future of this sport (much less of the technical aspect which we all admire so much here at F1T).

Not meaning to discriminate against the people of the above mentioned regions, but since that is where Formula One is expanding towards, it seemed logical (for me at least) to use them as an example of what I believe might happen, or might even be happening as we speak.

After pondering that 'idea', it comes as of no surprise why B. Ecclestone is so eager to expand the Formula One circus to the farest reaching ends of the Earth.

[Ray]

An interview with Humpy Wheeler, the president of Charlotte Motor Speedway ( I refuse to call it Lowes) on what it took to light the first night race there on NASCAR.com

Q: Do you have a favorite all-star moment?

The seminal moment here undoubtedly was 1992. We had announced six months before that we were going to light the track, and everybody said we were crazy and you can't do it and all that kind of stuff. I wondered there for a while whether we could do it or not, because the first couple of attempts we made to make it work didn't, in fact, work.

Q: How much trouble did you actually have?

We had terrible trouble. It had never been done before. But I figured if you could light a half-mile track, you could light a mile-and-a-half track. The problem was, when you stretch the lighting out that far, it does produce some challenges that you don't have when you're just doing a small area. That was the largest area ever lit for a sports event in the history of sports at the time.

So we had some real problems early on. But we brought Musco Lighting in -- a bunch of guys from a little town in Iowa named Muscatine. I think the turning point -- and not many people know this -- but the guy who ran the company, he was a brilliant engineer. And he says, 'I want to take the Petty driving school.' I said, 'Why do you want to do that?' And he said, 'I want to see what these guys go through.'

And after he took the Petty driving school, he saw what he had to do. I didn't want any poles in the infield, because I didn't want that picket fence effect. That would have negated the whole thing, to me. And that's when he came up with the reflective mirrors, which was really ingenious.

Q: Musco Lighting has gone on to become a huge player when it comes to lighting sports venues, hasn't it?

They've since become the premier sports lighting company. They've done all the Olympics since then.

That was the deal I made with him. The Atlanta Olympics, their whole lighting contract was up for grabs. And I said, 'You do this. Make a deal with us and do it at the right price, and I'll sweeten up all those people from Atlanta for you. This will show them what you're really capable of doing -- because if they see you can light this place, you can light anything. A soccer field will be nothing after this.' And they did get the Olympics. They got Melbourne, Australia, and then they got the Olympics in Greece.

[Ray]

(Not a chinese one, just to make Ray happy )

[WhiteBlue]

....This will most likely lead to an increase in ignorant and unknowledgeable so-called fans of Formula One, who will pollute many forums and discussions around the globe with their single-tracked minds filled with fanatic rants and statements about their 'idolized' driver or team, while having little or no understanding of the past, present, and future of this sport (much less of the technical aspect which we all admire so much here at F1T).
...

[rant on]the happy few who try to develop an understanding of F1 will allways be a tiny minority. if you detest the participation of the great unwashed you will eternally bang your head against a wall. the casual TV watcher is the main customer of the F1 business and we will have to live with the aspects of simplification to satisfy those guys. I'm talking about the James Allans, Heiko Wassers and Kai Ebels. Because F1 in the US is such an elitist event you probably do not have the effect there. wait until F1 is prime time material and you will see the hour of the blockheads. [/rant off]

[Steven]

Here's a recent image from a part of the track, which clearly shows the rails which will serve as supports for the lightning system:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/micamonkey ... 7/sizes/l/