2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[techman]

Don't believe in GPS, don't believe in track performance

GPS data doesnt tell you the exact story. Just because your GPS tells you are doing good in corners doesnt necessarily mean the car chassis is good. even matt Morris of mclaren told this to sky broadcaster ted kravitz, when ted asked him about renault in mclaren and how good it will be against a redbull.
You can bascially can take a sauber , add plently of downforce and drag and it will provide you good cornering speed but to what extent. loss of straight line speed.? mclaren basically are doing this, just to toot their horns and boast how good their overated chassis is.
Not only that mclaren run the highest rake angle, and also no credit given to honda for the smaller engine package compared to the bigger engine of renault. good luck mclaren , mclaren incompetent engineers will find that mclaren renault will be quite a lot slower to redbull .

[ALO_Power]

Don't believe in GPS, don't believe in track performance

GPS data doesnt tell you the exact story. Just because your GPS tells you are doing good in corners doesnt necessarily mean the car chassis is good. even matt Morris of mclaren told this to sky broadcaster ted kravitz, when ted asked him about renault in mclaren and how good it will be against a redbull.
You can bascially can take a sauber , add plently of downforce and drag and it will provide you good cornering speed but to what extent. loss of straight line speed.? mclaren basically are doing this, just to toot their horns and boast how good their overated chassis is.
Not only that mclaren run the highest rake angle, and also no credit given to honda for the smaller engine package compared to the bigger engine of renault. good luck mclaren , mclaren incompetent engineers will find that mclaren renault will be quite a lot slower to redbull .

Hahaha, thanks a lot (REALLY!) for that answer because you just showed clearly your troll intentions and you humiliated yourself festively leaving no doubts. What a joke, so basically you confirm that Honda P.U is a top one and that McLaren just has a Sauber chassis. hahaha. Thank you for the laugh man. Then, go and whisper to Sauber engineers that in Hungary they can ran MAX DOWNFORCE and win the race ! I guess it will be easier for them with a Ferrari engine! hahahahahah What a joke you are .

[OviJohn]

One has to wonder if McLAren trimmed DF to have a respectable top speed.

you must be joking. mclaren are running the most drag out of all f1 teams. RedBull removed the T wing but McLaren being mclaren ran them. not only that mclaren has the highest rake angle. no wonder the top speed gets affected. cant wait to see the top speed of this mclaren in 2018 compared to redbull. i pretty much guarantee. their top speed will be lower compared to redbulls. since redbull is the most efficient chassis out there

You know what compromissed means? I really hope you do. If not, do remember that chassis development was hindered and had to be compromissed by the lack of running the team had during winter testing (Yeah, that time where one supposed to make power, chassis, drag, efficiency correlations you know?) mostly due to Honda constant "minor issues" ™

Some keep forgetting here that Honda missed their power targets!! The chassis is planned and parts put into pipeline months in advanced taking into account said factors. You cannot expect the aero/car designers and engineers to go: "Aww shucks! scrap that rake, those suspensions, and rear wing; cause instead of having a PU pushing us with X HPs we have to cope with about 80hp less". Its reality, and sadly for Mclaren, it bit hard!.

It could be at RBR level, or better, but we won't ever know how good or what potential this car had due to Hondas shortcomings. Peter Prod and his team have done wonders just to compensate. Don't believe it? Take it from Scarbs video on the latest front wing introduced and how it works and attempts to help the car be more efficient due to its lack of grunt.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/video/mai ... 00390/?s=2 0:30 to 1:15

I suggest that instead of pinning Mclaren versus RBR as soon as 2018 starts, you should be looking at Toro Rosso versus Mclaren. Then some races after the summer break, you could check Mclaren versus RBR. Why? Cause as it is now, RBR has a ton of experience with the Renault package and cooling solutions. So it's only obvious to expect Mclaren to be behind RBR until they get some races under their belt and start optimizing the car with their own solutions, and not just Renault "stock recommendations".
*sigh*

2018 cant come any sooner!

[adrianjordan]

Can someone tell me why there is so much hate against McLaren in this McLaren topic? Calling McLaren engineers incompetent? The progress that McLaren showed in the last couple of races is hugely impressive in my opinion. Why do you even want to see McLaren don't do well? It's good for Formula 1. I would like to see all teams fighting with each other instead of the 4 cars that are currently dominating the sport in boring fashion.

Well i think it's useless to compare 2017 chassis with a still not existant 2018 one that won't even have monkey seat, twing and sharkfin

It's still an evolution and not having a sharkfin en T-Wing is McLaren's decision.

Erm, no it isnt. It is the rules. No-one will have shark fin or T-wing.

[RonDennis]

Can someone tell me why there is so much hate against McLaren in this McLaren topic? Calling McLaren engineers incompetent? The progress that McLaren showed in the last couple of races is hugely impressive in my opinion. Why do you even want to see McLaren don't do well? It's good for Formula 1. I would like to see all teams fighting with each other instead of the 4 cars that are currently dominating the sport in boring fashion.

Well i think it's useless to compare 2017 chassis with a still not existant 2018 one that won't even have monkey seat, twing and sharkfin

It's still an evolution and not having a sharkfin en T-Wing is McLaren's decision.

Erm, no it isnt. It is the rules. No-one will have shark fin or T-wing.

I'm saying it's probably to their advantage, since they suddenly vetoed the decision.

[proteus]

Don't believe in GPS, don't believe in track performance

GPS data doesnt tell you the exact story. Just because your GPS tells you are doing good in corners doesnt necessarily mean the car chassis is good. even matt Morris of mclaren told this to sky broadcaster ted kravitz, when ted asked him about renault in mclaren and how good it will be against a redbull.
You can bascially can take a sauber , add plently of downforce and drag and it will provide you good cornering speed but to what extent. loss of straight line speed.? mclaren basically are doing this, just to toot their horns and boast how good their overated chassis is.
Not only that mclaren run the highest rake angle, and also no credit given to honda for the smaller engine package compared to the bigger engine of renault.

What would i give to see a Mclaren do 100 laps in the first day of testing and STR crawling to a halt after few instalation laps. And not because i would hate STR, but only to see what excuses would u try to find, and what new way of Mclaren bashing would u produce then.

[Restomaniac]

The shark fin blocking by McLaren is very interesting.

Clearly they see something they don't like in the pre build data. Shafting the opposition never hurts too.

[bauc]

The shark fin blocking by McLaren is very interesting.

Clearly they see something they don't like in the pre build data. Shafting the opposition never hurts too.

It was first agreed by all (FIA + TEAMS) that the fin and the T wing will be gone for next year, so they must have worked on a cover without it for a long time and they were in advanced stage of development when the word came that the fin might stay due to better sponsor visibility, driver numbers ect....but still I'm surprised by the move. They must be very confident that they will have advantage in this area, but what could it be

[Restomaniac]

The shark fin blocking by McLaren is very interesting.

Clearly they see something they don't like in the pre build data. Shafting the opposition never hurts too.

It was first agreed by all (FIA + TEAMS) that the fin and the T wing will be gone for next year, so they must have worked on a cover without it for a long time and they were in advanced stage of development when the word came that the fin might stay due to better sponsor visibility, driver numbers ect....but still I'm surprised by the move. They must be very confident that they will have advantage in this area, but what could it be

Exactly my immediate responce was 'wow that's brave' when I heard.

[Restomaniac]

On the Red Bull/McLaren situation. Is the Red Bull really giving more room?

These pictures. Seem to suggest that near the driver the McLaren is actually bigger. Sorry I don't know how to link images.

https://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/02/24/ ... 9wuaqtsby/

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/cars/red-bull-rb13/

[DFX]

On the Red Bull/McLaren situation. Is the Red Bull really giving more room?

These pictures. Seem to suggest that near the driver the McLaren is actually bigger. Sorry I don't know how to link images.

https://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/02/24/ ... 9wuaqtsby/

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/cars/red-bull-rb13/

You added the wrong pics for RB.

But I have the same impression, the Mclaren side pods intake are smaller but it grows bigger in the middle section. While RB's seems narrower in width all the way but are a little bit longer.

[kptaylor]

The shark fin blocking by McLaren is very interesting.

Clearly they see something they don't like in the pre build data. Shafting the opposition never hurts too.

It was first agreed by all (FIA + TEAMS) that the fin and the T wing will be gone for next year, so they must have worked on a cover without it for a long time and they were in advanced stage of development when the word came that the fin might stay due to better sponsor visibility, driver numbers ect....but still I'm surprised by the move. They must be very confident that they will have advantage in this area, but what could it be

Or they didn't want to spend the time/money/resources to reconfigure the car to include items they thought would be gone.

[diffuser]

One has to wonder if McLAren trimmed DF to have a respectable top speed.

you must be joking. mclaren are running the most drag out of all f1 teams. redbull removed the T wing but mclaren being mclaren ran them. not only that mclaren has the highest rake angle. no wonder the top speed gets affected. cant wait to see the top speed of this mclaren in 2018 compared to redbull. i pretty much guarantee. their top speed will be lower compared to redbulls. since redbull is the most efficient chassis out there

Highest Rake means highest amount of squatting on straights. The rear springs are configured to drop the rear on straights in effect reducing the rear wing, T Wing and Monkey seat angle. It also raises the front wing which again reduces drag.

[Restomaniac]

The shark fin blocking by McLaren is very interesting.

Clearly they see something they don't like in the pre build data. Shafting the opposition never hurts too.

It was first agreed by all (FIA + TEAMS) that the fin and the T wing will be gone for next year, so they must have worked on a cover without it for a long time and they were in advanced stage of development when the word came that the fin might stay due to better sponsor visibility, driver numbers ect....but still I'm surprised by the move. They must be very confident that they will have advantage in this area, but what could it be

Or they didn't want to spend the time/money/resources to reconfigure the car to include items they thought would be gone.

It seems only McLaren have those concerns which seems strange. I think it's more likely that they think they have found something which would be negated by a continuation of the current shark fins.

[j.yank]

No, I compare McLaren with Red Bull after the pit stops of Alonso and Verstappen, when both of them were with new softs, and Alonso never closed the gap with Massa bellow 2 sec from lap 30 to lap 67. So, this cannot be excuse.

How can you compare VER in clean air with ALO 2-2.5sec behind MAS. Completely different circumstances.

The rest, read above...

The dirty air is below 1 sec gap. About your calculations: couple days ago I wrote you that taking into account only the drag and power you cannot have the real picture - the combination of downforce and drag is the important for the chassis performance. BTW, while this cannot be conclusive, it would be interesting to make your calculations with Mercedes and their clients, or Renault and their clients.