Yes sure OBVIOUSLY but I won't buy it until you bring evidence or calculationj.yank wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 22:43Well, basically this is what I suspected - McLaren are not capable to increase the downforce without increasing the drag. This is the problem of all customer teams - they have the power of Mercedes or Ferrari engines but they are wasting this power with huge drag. That's why they are forced, to choose between high drag-downforce settings or thin wings with high straight speed. Actually, the first option is not an option for them - if they run high drag-downforce they will loose in the corners against better balanced chassis of the works teams, but also they will loose the only real asset that they have - the power advantage given by the Mercedes or Ferrari PU on the straights. On other hand, Red Bull have very efficient chassis which means no-drag-high-downforce. This allows them to be superior in the corners sections without sacrificing too much of the limited available power on straights. Because McLaren obviously have high drag-downforce chassis they cannot run the same settings like Red Bull. Saying this I don't wish to hurt the feelings of McLaren fans here. I am really sorry that the McLaren-Honda project failed. This is not good for both sides. Three years of efforts and hopes have gone because of corporate games and mistakes.
Again with the boring drag story, I still wonder why McLaren haven't hired all the people in here. You guys know exactly how to get McLaren back on top again. You actually think McLaren would leave Honda, say goodbye to 100 million works deal for an engine with similar power output. McLaren has all the information from Honda and Renault, while we have none. This car was probably designed for an engine with much more power, so they were heavily handicapped since day one. But I guess the engine 'guru' of Honda now also knows how to setup the McLaren, is there anything they can't do?j.yank wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 22:43Well, basically this is what I suspected - McLaren are not capable to increase the downforce without increasing the drag. This is the problem of all customer teams - they have the power of Mercedes or Ferrari engines but they are wasting this power with huge drag. That's why they are forced, to choose between high drag-downforce settings or thin wings with high straight speed. Actually, the first option is not an option for them - if they run high drag-downforce they will loose in the corners against better balanced chassis of the works teams, but also they will loose the only real asset that they have - the power advantage given by the Mercedes or Ferrari PU on the straights. On other hand, Red Bull have very efficient chassis which means no-drag-high-downforce. This allows them to be superior in the corners sections without sacrificing too much of the limited available power on straights. Because McLaren obviously have high drag-downforce chassis they cannot run the same settings like Red Bull. Saying this I don't wish to hurt the feelings of McLaren fans here. I am really sorry that the McLaren-Honda project failed. This is not good for both sides. Three years of efforts and hopes have gone because of corporate games and mistakes.
So what you are trying to have us believe is that Peter prodromou, the guy that has worked with Adrian Newey for the last 26 years as his right-hand man, second in charge of Aero at Redbull And quite clearly his Protege has suddenly forgot everything he has learnt about making the most aeroefficient cars there has ever been in Formula Onej.yank wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 22:43Well, basically this is what I suspected - McLaren are not capable to increase the downforce without increasing the drag. This is the problem of all customer teams - they have the power of Mercedes or Ferrari engines but they are wasting this power with huge drag. That's why they are forced, to choose between high drag-downforce settings or thin wings with high straight speed. Actually, the first option is not an option for them - if they run high drag-downforce they will loose in the corners against better balanced chassis of the works teams, but also they will loose the only real asset that they have - the power advantage given by the Mercedes or Ferrari PU on the straights. On other hand, Red Bull have very efficient chassis which means no-drag-high-downforce. This allows them to be superior in the corners sections without sacrificing too much of the limited available power on straights. Because McLaren obviously have high drag-downforce chassis they cannot run the same settings like Red Bull. Saying this I don't wish to hurt the feelings of McLaren fans here. I am really sorry that the McLaren-Honda project failed. This is not good for both sides. Three years of efforts and hopes have gone because of corporate games and mistakes.
+1HondaRaceReplica wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 23:56luckily there is a way of settling this like men.....Next year Toro Rosso Honda vs Mclaren Renault....May the best “Team” win!.....
Even better. Red Bull Renault vs Mclaren Renault. Lets see who will have the best chassis. I can already think of some of the excuses if they are behind.HondaRaceReplica wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 23:56luckily there is a way of settling this like men.....Next year Toro Rosso Honda vs Mclaren Renault....May the best “Team” win!.....
Toro Rosso can't even keep up with McLaren-Honda, they won't stand a chance.HondaRaceReplica wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 23:56luckily there is a way of settling this like men.....Next year Toro Rosso Honda vs Mclaren Renault....May the best “Team” win!.....
Don’t worry Mr. Dennis...Red Bull Honda 2019 will take care of that!.....RonDennis wrote: ↑16 Nov 2017, 00:57Toro Rosso can't even keep up with McLaren-Honda, they won't stand a chance.HondaRaceReplica wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 23:56luckily there is a way of settling this like men.....Next year Toro Rosso Honda vs Mclaren Renault....May the best “Team” win!.....
Not to mention STR suddenly get a sizeable cash injection by the way of free engines from Honda... I believe Franz has been saying in the conferences they have the ability to push development and make a competitive car for the partnership next year whether he is just hopeful or alluding to greater potential is up for debate but...HondaRaceReplica wrote: ↑16 Nov 2017, 01:50Don’t worry Mr. Dennis...Red Bull Honda 2019 will take care of that!.....RonDennis wrote: ↑16 Nov 2017, 00:57Toro Rosso can't even keep up with McLaren-Honda, they won't stand a chance.HondaRaceReplica wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 23:56luckily there is a way of settling this like men.....Next year Toro Rosso Honda vs Mclaren Renault....May the best “Team” win!.....
So there´s only two options, being as good as Newey, or being completely useless...