That is excellent to hear! I'm glad Honda are feeling much more optimistic and relieved for next season. Behind all the scathing reports and public McLaren/Honda "disagreements", I have a huge respect for what they have managed to achieve in the time they have done. The engineering feat is astonishing with everything that was happening in the background. So kudos to yourself, your nephew and Honda for fighting the good fight!Wazari wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 00:02The mood at Honda is very upbeat according to my nephew. I am no longer at Sakura. I hear there is a sense of relief and great optimism for the upcoming season. After the season is over and the marriage is finally done, I will post about what I feel are the mistakes made by both parties.GhostF1 wrote: ↑16 Nov 2017, 13:44Well this year has certainly been a "unique" one. I wonder if maybe Wazari could share any insights he may have on the general mood at Honda and their confidence in their 2018 PU. The first time running a second iteration of a current engine layout, surely the mood for 2018 is a good one?
Does it mean that they will start the new season again from scratch?Wazari wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 00:09They are quite different and I will go into greater detail after the season is over. I will say this, the current Spec 3.XXX series PU is a mish-mash of HRD, McLaren (MAT), outside consultants and internal consultants. IMO this will never work. Too many cooks in the kitchen. The "Spec 4" PU is more of the "Honda way" which all the "experts" think is doomed for failure. The Spec 4 PU has a different block, internals, MGU-H, etc. The Spec 4 heads will mate to the current PU.MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑16 Nov 2017, 21:16Also - if the Spec 3 vs Spec 4 units are really that much different it makes more sense why the "Spec 4" unit was never run in the car this year.
I think it should be given a different name though, Spec 3 vs Spec 4 sounds like just another iteration of the same engine. If the Engine Block is different then it should be given a completely different engine designation.
So what do the points of debate here concern ? Would love to hear that now, but you can can add that to your after-season roundup if you want, I expect that post at 15:00 Sun 26th
Very well put. The turbo should be isolated from engine thermal expansion, block bending due to chassis loads and engine vibration. I see no reason why the turbo would be solidly mounted.ziggy wrote: ↑16 Nov 2017, 21:10This is one of the things I don't understand. The whole MGUH + turbo + compressor should be made as a separate unit in a separate housing and should be "floating" on springs or some kind of dampers. This way it would be isolated from the whole car stress. Offcourse packaging wise this would be a nightmare, but should be doable. Also separate parts should be changeable, so a failure of only 1 component doesen't result in a whole unit change.MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑16 Nov 2017, 16:43Yeah I had a feeling this was the case.
Makes some sense from packaging and rigidity, but makes no sense from a maintenance / repair stand point.
Explains why they just swap the whole unit.
And if anyone has had a turbo fail you'll know they have a high chance of causing damage to the ICE, especially if it's on the compressor side.
At the end of the day the engine is designed to be modular and is easier to replace it all.
If only they were not penalized for such problems.
Surely there were some reasons for this way, maybe cooling or packaging?
There is one special occasion that I can recollect seeing an ICE failure was during practice at the Spanish GP.Mudflap wrote: ↑15 Nov 2017, 22:50Question:
Earlier in the season Honda were claiming that the ICE was pretty much spot on and they only had TC/MGUH issues. Is it me or they are struggling with the ICE too based on the number of units they have used so far ?
Of course it is masked by the appalling TC/H reliability, but the 9/10 units per driver seem to indicate a pretty serious issue there too.
Does anyone recall any rumors on ICE failures ?
HmmWazari wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 00:09They are quite different and I will go into greater detail after the season is over. I will say this, the current Spec 3.XXX series PU is a mish-mash of HRD, McLaren (MAT), outside consultants and internal consultants. IMO this will never work. Too many cooks in the kitchen. The "Spec 4" PU is more of the "Honda way" which all the "experts" think is doomed for failure. The Spec 4 PU has a different block, internals, MGU-H, etc. The Spec 4 heads will mate to the current PU.
There is a world of difference here between "think" and "thought". I hope it's closer to "thought" - meaning the architectural path that McHonda didn't take in 2017 (due to presumibly political reasons that I hope Wazari to cover in time).The "Spec 4" PU is more of the "Honda way" which all the "experts" think is doomed for failure
Wazari wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 00:09
They are quite different and I will go into greater detail after the season is over. I will say this, the current Spec 3.XXX series PU is a mish-mash of HRD, McLaren (MAT), outside consultants and internal consultants. IMO this will never work. Too many cooks in the kitchen. The "Spec 4" PU is more of the "Honda way" which all the "experts" think is doomed for failure. The Spec 4 PU has a different block, internals, MGU-H, etc. The Spec 4 heads will mate to the current PU.
That is pretty much it.
Mmmm STR12-H anyone hahadamager21 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 06:55Really hope Honda can turn it around in 2018. We want all engine manufacturers to be close to each other in terms of performance leading to a good fight at the top and mid-field too.
I don't believe Honda will test their 2018 engine with McLaren at the Abu Dhabi test. This for sure will be a limitation as every other engine manufacturer I am sure will bring in evolution of their current engine at the test.
Renault may opt to test latest engine with Renault and Red Bull team with 2017 engine at test for Torro Rosso. Honda is badly stuck and lagging behind thanks to only 1 team using their engine. Need more teams and more mileage to expedite learning curve and progress
Oh, really, not again!Wazari wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 00:02The mood at Honda is very upbeat according to my nephew. I am no longer at Sakura. I hear there is a sense of relief and great optimism for the upcoming season. After the season is over and the marriage is finally done, I will post about what I feel are the mistakes made by both parties.GhostF1 wrote: ↑16 Nov 2017, 13:44Well this year has certainly been a "unique" one. I wonder if maybe Wazari could share any insights he may have on the general mood at Honda and their confidence in their 2018 PU. The first time running a second iteration of a current engine layout, surely the mood for 2018 is a good one?
Wazari wrote: ↑23 Dec 2015, 16:53We have the saying, keisan wa kantan, tsukuri wa muzukashii; calculations are easy, implementation is complicated.
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I think the other teams are much closer to running at full deployment throughout the race and McLaren is nowhere close to it. I do know engineers at Honda are very pleased with their latest ICE test results and feel the ICE's power output lacks nothing to the other teams.