2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[RonDennis]

Petrobras to sponsor McLaren in 2018?

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37858.html

Zak Brown also said that they have signed an American sponsor.

[Andres125sx]

iam not trolling , i am telling the raw truth .

if you people believe mclaren have such an amazing chassis. why cant you say openly that mclaren will beat redbull in the constructor title next year end.

Because thanks god people in this forum is WAY more cautious than yourself, and even if McLaren can compete with RBR in the chassis department, RBR is using Renault engines since they exist, while McLaren will be using Renault as a first, so even if they´re equally competitive in the department, they need to aquire some experience before fighting RBR in equal conditions

Also, RBR is arguably the best chassis manufacturer, so even if McLaren can´t beat them, that does not mean McLaren sucks as you´re obsessed to prove, only that they´re not as excellent, even if they´re very good


What is out of doubt is Honda has finished the season so far from their own targets I find it amazing to see people like yourself stating it´s all due to McLaren drag..... Do you really think Honda had to use 3x the allowed allocations because of McLaren drag? If they were competitive, reliability problems can be seen as maturity problems, but when they underperform AND break apart so often, there´s no excuse. This is F1, like it or not.

[Alonso Fan]

Yes RBR is probably the best chassis right now but even they were nowhere compared to Mercedes and ferrari in the beginning of the season. I remember Ricciardo saying that their deficit isn't only engine related and that they have a lot of work to do on the chassis side. We then saw some good updates which brought them closer. Anyhow this is the McLaren topic so I'll get back to that.

You techman say that McLaren is a draggy chassis and nowhere compared to red bull's super efficient chassis. Let's say for sake of argument you're right. What's to say mclaren cannot catch up for next year? In your mind mclaren will never be as quick but ferrari and Mercedes have proven your argument wrong that nothing is as great as the mighty RB chassis. And ferrari and Mercedes might prove you wrong again next year if mclaren doesn't. An earlier poster (can't be bothered to go look for their name) said it right: you came up with all this so you could say I TOLD YOU SO and come back trolling this forum next year. For the sake of the forum and the mods and perhaps you too techman I hope mclaren beats RB fair and square in the constructors championship. If this is the case I won't be at all be surprised if we don't hear from you next year.

[RonDennis]

Yes RBR is probably the best chassis right now but even they were nowhere compared to Mercedes and ferrari in the beginning of the season. I remember Ricciardo saying that their deficit isn't only engine related and that they have a lot of work to do on the chassis side. We then saw some good updates which brought them closer. Anyhow this is the McLaren topic so I'll get back to that.

You techman say that McLaren is a draggy chassis and nowhere compared to red bull's super efficient chassis. Let's say for sake of argument you're right. What's to say mclaren cannot catch up for next year? In your mind mclaren will never be as quick but ferrari and Mercedes have proven your argument wrong that nothing is as great as the mighty RB chassis. And ferrari and Mercedes might prove you wrong again next year if mclaren doesn't. An earlier poster (can't be bothered to go look for their name) said it right: you came up with all this so you could say I TOLD YOU SO and come back trolling this forum next year. For the sake of the forum and the mods and perhaps you too techman I hope mclaren beats RB fair and square in the constructors championship. If this is the case I won't be at all be surprised if we don't hear from you next year.

Just look at where Red Bull was at the beginning of the season and look where they were in Abu Dhabi. Might not be a completely fair comparison, but it's not like their chassis is superior to everything that's on track. McLaren has also shown in the past that they can compete with Red Bull and their development rate. I don't even know why some people would like to see McLaren do bad? What's the point?

[DFX]

Santander is rumored to end it's Ferrari partnership at the end of this year. Ferrari wanted more money and Santander Washington unwilling to play It. Could McLaren and ZakB lure they back to the team?

[the EDGE]

Seeing as there are sooo many people in here that think they can can do a far better job than the current McLaren team, I thought it might be useful to post the following link I just stumbled across

https://www.reed.co.uk/jobs/mclaren-457 ... m_content=

[HPD]

Are you generally late for 2018?
Hasegawa: I do not think we're late, even if it looks late in timing. There are many things regarding the engine where we have already had experience with McLaren in the past three years. Also, our narrower engine should fit better in the Toro Rosso.
http://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/1 ... eumen.html

Finally, Hasegawa evaluated McLaren who worked together until now as follows.

"I think that Ron Dennis was even bigger.
As he owns things as an owner, each word has weight. The current management team of McLaren is not bad, but they are saying the company's opinion as well as McLaren. So, when opinions disagree with us, they will take it home. Denim was not so, it decided promptly. "

"Personally I respect Dennis, Dennis got bigger on the back, Even when I changed the oil from Exon Mobile to BP (Pack Law), a telephone call came from him" I will change it. " It can not be said that "I can not respond even if I change it at such timing." It was a person worthy of such conversation. "

"It is different from the Dennis era as it is my company now as McLaren decides on a consultation system, so I am not criticizing Michael, Zak Brown or Eric Brie - they are also doing as managers But Ron Dennis was different. "
https://jp.motorsport.com/f1/news/%E3%8 ... 84-983307/

@Thunder told me to keep posting Honda news here.
Then, if you do not like it, ignore it.
Peace and love

[diffuser]

From a fan perspective, the best thing about the Renault move is, we'll no longer be comparing the McLaren chassis against a ghost. The Renault chassis competition is very strong ...

Even if Honda would have started 2017 with the 3.8, we would still be in a chassis vacuum. At best we would have had Sauber. Sauber is far behind SBR.

[Alonso Fan]

Seeing as there are sooo many people in here that think they can can do a far better job than the current McLaren team, I thought it might be useful to post the following link I just stumbled across

https://www.reed.co.uk/jobs/mclaren-457 ... m_content=

'hybrid and electrical senior buyer'

Are they trying to sell all the failed Honda parts or something?

Edit: looking back at this it was perhaps a little uncalled for. Sorry I couldn't help myself

[Wazari]

So many things I want to say, I don't know where to start, what to say and don't like the idea of getting blasted even though I try and be as objective as I can. This is just one man's opinion and please take it for what it's worth. Consider it fiction if you wish.

The marriage between McLaren and Honda is finally over. After getting involved and seeing the internal dynamics of the relationship, I am not surprised at the outcome. IMO it was doomed from the start. I know hindsight is 20/20 but this hybrid "works", "we will help/(force you) with our advice", rushed, lack of experience on both parties part was never going to work. It's obvious Honda fell short of expectations and should take majority of the blame, but not all with regards to the PU's shortcomings. McLaren is to share their part of the PU's shortcomings although it appears through the media at many times it's all Honda's fault. Honda is to blame for this as many times Japaneses companies take on more of their share of fault as to appear to always take the high road at the risk of bad PR. I really dislike this about Japanese culture and have been called a "rebel" not "traitor" for this attitude. Years ago when a tragic airline accident happened with a JAL plane, even though it was later discovered to be a mechanical failure by faulty repairs by Boeing, the JAL president accepted full responsibility and resigned. Two JAL inspection personnel committed suicide as atonement. I don't agree with this philosophy. To me each party should accept the blame for which they are responsible in implementing. This current spec PU again was in my words a mish-mash of Honda, MAT and outside designers and IMO pieced together hurriedly and sacrificed in areas for the sake of weight and packaging. It lacked power, efficiency and reliability compared to the other considered versions on the dyno over last winter but for some reason beyond me and insistence of both McLaren and Honda, this direction was chosen. I really don't understand it and extremely frustrated and disappointed over that decision. I will continue this later as some things have come up right now.

[Xero]

Santander is rumored to end it's Ferrari partnership at the end of this year. Ferrari wanted more money and Santander Washington unwilling to play It. Could McLaren and ZakB lure they back to the team?

Makes sense seeing as Alonso was the main reason that they first went to McLaren, and then followed to Ferrari. Santander and Petrobas on the car? Sounds like a strong pairing.

[Xero]

This current spec PU again was in my words a mish-mash of Honda, MAT and outside designers and IMO pieced together hurriedly and sacrificed in areas for the sake of weight and packaging.

Does it surprise you to hear that Honda will continue with the current design into next season, and evolve it? Or are they so far in they would rather not risk essentially starting over again to save face?

[RonDennis]

So many things I want to say, I don't know where to start, what to say and don't like the idea of getting blasted even though I try and be as objective as I can. This is just one man's opinion and please take it for what it's worth. Consider it fiction if you wish.

The marriage between McLaren and Honda is finally over. After getting involved and seeing the internal dynamics of the relationship, I am not surprised at the outcome. IMO it was doomed from the start. I know hindsight is 20/20 but this hybrid "works", "we will help/(force you) with our advice", rushed, lack of experience on both parties part was never going to work. It's obvious Honda fell short of expectations and should take majority of the blame, but not all with regards to the PU's shortcomings. McLaren is to share their part of the PU's shortcomings although it appears through the media at many times it's all Honda's fault. Honda is to blame for this as many times Japaneses companies take on more of their share of fault as to appear to always take the high road at the risk of bad PR. I really dislike this about Japanese culture and have been called a "rebel" not "traitor" for this attitude. Years ago when a tragic airline accident happened with a JAL plane, even though it was later discovered to be a mechanical failure by faulty repairs by Boeing, the JAL president accepted full responsibility and resigned. Two JAL inspection personnel committed suicide as atonement. I don't agree with this philosophy. To me each party should accept the blame for which they are responsible in implementing. This current spec PU again was in my words a mish-mash of Honda, MAT and outside designers and IMO pieced together hurriedly and sacrificed in areas for the sake of weight and packaging. It lacked power, efficiency and reliability compared to the other considered versions on the dyno over last winter but for some reason beyond me and insistence of both McLaren and Honda, this direction was chosen. I really don't understand it and extremely frustrated and disappointed over that decision. I will continue this later as some things have come up right now.

Didn't they found out that the single cylinder design wasn't right in December? Are the facilities of Honda also on par with the competition?

[Wazari]

Does it surprise you to hear that Honda will continue with the current design into next season, and evolve it? Or are they so far in they would rather not risk essentially starting over again to save face?

No. The current layout is fine. They will evolve it. That is the key word. I am certain many aspects of the ICE will be different from the current PU as well as the MGU-H, turbine and compressor.

[Wazari]

Didn't they found out that the single cylinder design wasn't right in December? Are the facilities of Honda also on par with the competition?

Which design? The major issues didn't show up until complete V6 was built and mated to MGU-H and chassis. Current facilities are state of the art. Manpower and methodology looking back IMO were the major problems.

I lost my train of thought, but in very simplistic terms, the nature of the relationship between chassis supplier and PU supplier was not healthy. I know this may sound odd but McLaren IMO had too much control over the PU design and building process. You have two entities with different opinions on how to solve problem X and that just doesn't work. I understand McLaren's urgency to become competitive as soon as possible but 4 years in development time is nothing. The panic type attitude just muddied the waters and band aid solutions by different parties resulted in the current season. It's a shame. Close to 500 million US dollars over the last s seasons for 9th place. Shame on both parties. McLaren's current chassis good? Define good? Mechanical grip, ease of set up, aero efficiency, low drag, high DF??? Yes on some, no on others..........Mr. Morris knows the chassis better than any driver or EB. What's his opinion? Interesting he doesn't say much. Anyway sorry for the rant. 2017 season, IMO, McLaren chassis B-, Honda PU D+. Thank goodness Mr. Newey doesn't work for Mercedes. That man is a genius and none of his prodigies come close. He is brilliant at creating DF from the bottom half of the car without sacrificing aero efficiency. No need to run T-wings with that car.
I will post more thoughts about the PU in the Honda PU section soon.