Have a look.
https://goo.gl/maps/62g14BvEc252
The old Honda building is across the street from the new one in MK. This is a sort of historical coincidence, but it will probably be useful from now on anyway.
Have a look.
techman wrote: ↑07 Dec 2017, 10:19have to say this is the best decsion honda has done to fire hasegawa. this guy was too scared to speak up. honda needs someone like cyril in renault who can speak up for honda , not say take blame, when honda engineers are saying mclaren running heavy downforce in brazil for example. it was reported in the media.
Although I would agree that Mr. techman does sound like a broken record at times, this particular post does have a lot of merit. As Mr. Sasha mentioned, Honda doesn't fire people (unless you do something really bad) but in essence Hasegawa-san was dismissed from his position. He could be called a scapegoat but in true Japanese fashion, when things don't go as planned someone must be held accountable. Also according to my nephew, as the season progressed more and more of the Sakura personnel grew displeased with Hasegawa-san's refusal to defend Honda. When one carefully examines all the PU failures this past season, more than half can be attributed to McLaren related issues. If a McLaren design or part failed, or a McLaren tech installed something incorrectly, I cannot think of one instance where he pointed the finger as to the exact cause. He spoke in abstracts and spoke as if all PU related failures were Honda's responsibility. This did not sit well with many of the staff at Sakura and caused some resentment. His response would be, "We're partners, placing blame doesn't help matters and we're a team...." Some saw this as weakness that people like EB and Alonso would verbally abuse Honda for the PU's shortcomings. Some of it was definitely Honda's doing but not all. Yes, the 617 fell short in power and efficiency, but reliability was nowhere near all of Honda's doing with regards to the PU. I must admit, I too would get frustrated at Hasegawa-san for taking blame on Honda's behalf when many times I thought it was not justified. Also since he didn't push back, I think it made it easier for McLaren just to lay all the blame on Honda.Webber2011 wrote: ↑07 Dec 2017, 15:26https://i.imgur.com/DQKsGFq.jpgtechman wrote: ↑07 Dec 2017, 10:19have to say this is the best decsion honda has done to fire hasegawa. this guy was too scared to speak up. honda needs someone like cyril in renault who can speak up for honda , not say take blame, when honda engineers are saying mclaren running heavy downforce in brazil for example. it was reported in the media.
I can imagine how frustrating it would be to not be defended when people blame you for something you didn't do. From the outside, it would appear that Mr. Hasegawa has been under pressure to keep the relationship with McLaren alive, and might have decided that not fighting them was the best way. Would you think it's possible that McLaren, in turn, felt under pressure from the public and their investors to end the relationship after placing so much blame on Honda, deserved or not?Wazari wrote: ↑08 Dec 2017, 03:51Although I would agree that Mr. techman does sound like a broken record at times, this particular post does have a lot of merit. As Mr. Sasha mentioned, Honda doesn't fire people (unless you do something really bad) but in essence Hasegawa-san was dismissed from his position. He could be called a scapegoat but in true Japanese fashion, when things don't go as planned someone must be held accountable. Also according to my nephew, as the season progressed more and more of the Sakura personnel grew displeased with Hasegawa-san's refusal to defend Honda. When one carefully examines all the PU failures this past season, more than half can be attributed to McLaren related issues. If a McLaren design or part failed, or a McLaren tech installed something incorrectly, I cannot think of one instance where he pointed the finger as to the exact cause. He spoke in abstracts and spoke as if all PU related failures were Honda's responsibility. This did not sit well with many of the staff at Sakura and caused some resentment. His response would be, "We're partners, placing blame doesn't help matters and we're a team...." Some saw this as weakness that people like EB and Alonso would verbally abuse Honda for the PU's shortcomings. Some of it was definitely Honda's doing but not all. Yes, the 617 fell short in power and efficiency, but reliability was nowhere near all of Honda's doing with regards to the PU. I must admit, I too would get frustrated at Hasegawa-san for taking blame on Honda's behalf when many times I thought it was not justified. Also since he didn't push back, I think it made it easier for McLaren just to lay all the blame on Honda.Webber2011 wrote: ↑07 Dec 2017, 15:26https://i.imgur.com/DQKsGFq.jpgtechman wrote: ↑07 Dec 2017, 10:19have to say this is the best decsion honda has done to fire hasegawa. this guy was too scared to speak up. honda needs someone like cyril in renault who can speak up for honda , not say take blame, when honda engineers are saying mclaren running heavy downforce in brazil for example. it was reported in the media.
Moving forward, I really don't know how the relationship between TR and Honda will play out. I don't think it can be any more toxic than it was between McLaren and Honda. This will be more of a customer-constructor relationship so it should be better. Also Tanabe-san is more suited to deal with the likes of Horner.
Although I would agree that Mr. techman does sound like a broken record at times, this particular post does have a lot of merit. As Mr. Sasha mentioned, Honda doesn't fire people (unless you do something really bad) but in essence Hasegawa-san was dismissed from his position. He could be called a scapegoat but in true Japanese fashion, when things don't go as planned someone must be held accountable. Also according to my nephew, as the season progressed more and more of the Sakura personnel grew displeased with Hasegawa-san's refusal to defend Honda. When one carefully examines all the PU failures this past season, more than half can be attributed to McLaren related issues. If a McLaren design or part failed, or a McLaren tech installed something incorrectly, I cannot think of one instance where he pointed the finger as to the exact cause. He spoke in abstracts and spoke as if all PU related failures were Honda's responsibility. This did not sit well with many of the staff at Sakura and caused some resentment. His response would be, "We're partners, placing blame doesn't help matters and we're a team...." Some saw this as weakness that people like EB and Alonso would verbally abuse Honda for the PU's shortcomings. Some of it was definitely Honda's doing but not all. Yes, the 617 fell short in power and efficiency, but reliability was nowhere near all of Honda's doing with regards to the PU. I must admit, I too would get frustrated at Hasegawa-san for taking blame on Honda's behalf when many times I thought it was not justified. Also since he didn't push back, I think it made it easier for McLaren just to lay all the blame on Honda.
Moving forward, I really don't know how the relationship between TR and Honda will play out. I don't think it can be any more toxic than it was between McLaren and Honda. This will be more of a customer-constructor relationship so it should be better. Also Tanabe-san is more suited to deal with the likes of Horner.
Hasegawa sounds like the better man. If you wanted him to blame McLaren for Honda’s reliablity issues and he refused then good for him for having some back bone. He was a great guy.Wazari wrote: ↑08 Dec 2017, 03:51Although I would agree that Mr. techman does sound like a broken record at times, this particular post does have a lot of merit. As Mr. Sasha mentioned, Honda doesn't fire people (unless you do something really bad) but in essence Hasegawa-san was dismissed from his position. He could be called a scapegoat but in true Japanese fashion, when things don't go as planned someone must be held accountable. Also according to my nephew, as the season progressed more and more of the Sakura personnel grew displeased with Hasegawa-san's refusal to defend Honda. When one carefully examines all the PU failures this past season, more than half can be attributed to McLaren related issues. If a McLaren design or part failed, or a McLaren tech installed something incorrectly, I cannot think of one instance where he pointed the finger as to the exact cause. He spoke in abstracts and spoke as if all PU related failures were Honda's responsibility. This did not sit well with many of the staff at Sakura and caused some resentment. His response would be, "We're partners, placing blame doesn't help matters and we're a team...." Some saw this as weakness that people like EB and Alonso would verbally abuse Honda for the PU's shortcomings. Some of it was definitely Honda's doing but not all. Yes, the 617 fell short in power and efficiency, but reliability was nowhere near all of Honda's doing with regards to the PU. I must admit, I too would get frustrated at Hasegawa-san for taking blame on Honda's behalf when many times I thought it was not justified. Also since he didn't push back, I think it made it easier for McLaren just to lay all the blame on Honda.Webber2011 wrote: ↑07 Dec 2017, 15:26https://i.imgur.com/DQKsGFq.jpgtechman wrote: ↑07 Dec 2017, 10:19have to say this is the best decsion honda has done to fire hasegawa. this guy was too scared to speak up. honda needs someone like cyril in renault who can speak up for honda , not say take blame, when honda engineers are saying mclaren running heavy downforce in brazil for example. it was reported in the media.
Moving forward, I really don't know how the relationship between TR and Honda will play out. I don't think it can be any more toxic than it was between McLaren and Honda. This will be more of a customer-constructor relationship so it should be better. Also Tanabe-san is more suited to deal with the likes of Horner.
That is what you can expect from mature japanese person, but you dont want to be his subordinate, as he May cant defend you and May blame you. If you are asian and work in japanese company you will know, especially when you are not a japanese.
+1Chicane wrote: ↑08 Dec 2017, 13:221) Majority of Honda failures were ''HEAT'' related failures of MGU-H. Honda struggled pretty much entire season barring the last three races with MGU-H bearing failures. So how a Mclaren technician installing those components is beyond my comprehension.
2) Hasegawa is a principled man who spoke the facts and not try to spin it in to Honda vs McLaren.
3) Recent article points out to how without Mclaren's help Honda may not even have made it to the grid in Melbourne 2017. These are not my words but words of Honda's Nakamura.
4) Nakamura has only good things to say about Mclaren as to how up until the second preseason test Mclaren were encouraging and supporting Honda but once Honda failed to keep their end of the bargain where they had promised earlier that they will have a working reliable PU in second preseason test things started going south.