Is a level playing field worth losing historic teams?

[OneAlex]

We've discussed Ferrari in particular leaving before but it's never been put to a poll, so...

So as the 2018 seasons kicks off it seems Liberty may begin looking at the payments system for teams and ways to make the income distribution more equal. Naturally the biggest inequality lies with the historic payments and in particular Ferrari's bonus.

Ferrari themselves have been making lots of noise lately about leaving the sport due to technical regulations, and many commentators have pointed out the payment re-negotiations coming up as an extra reason for Ferrari in particular making noises, with some saying they could quit if their extra income was taken away. Of course Williams could also potentially struggle without their historic payment also.

Formula 1 needs to increase the spectacle, but it also needs to become a fairer sport and in my opinion that means the teams have to be given a much more equal amount of money and be able to compete on the same terms -if they want to put more money into their team from outside then okay, but the sport itself shouldn't be artificially boosting teams to such an extent.

Personally I think this would be worth the potential loss of Ferrari. Even if I would hate to see them leave I think it's only due to their under-performing that the sport hasn't been harmed by more Ferrari dominance helped by this bonus budget. I would also hate it if Williams were forced out financially (although other teams do compete on less so I would think they would survive).

[Jolle]

I think F1 has enough income to secure the income of the small teams. The starting fee should be so that you can pay for a your factory, R&D and raceteam (to race at least within the 107%). Above that you could get a bonus if you perform well, but that could be a bit less, seeing that the starting fee takes up a lot of budget. On top fo that I do think it's fair to reward the historic teams for their marketing of F1. For instance, every time Mercedes uses Lewis Hamilton in an add, they are not just making an add for Mercedes but also for F1. If you would count all the money that the big teams put in their brand connected to F1, I think F1 got a good deal on those historic payments.

So, raise the starting fee for everyone to be safe, and keep the historic payments but connect them to marketing. No free money.

[kptaylor]

Put another way, is it fair to pay historic teams for doing "nothing"? Should Ferrari fall on hard times like McLaren, is it right to pay them to keep them in the sport or should they be motivated to refocus and claw back positions in the WCC? I can see both viewpoints but just because Bernie caved in to demands for an unequal share of the pie it doesn't mean it's "unfair" to rescind that bad deal. Ferrari can and should play by the same rules and win their share of the money. No team, historic or not, should get money for just continuing to show up. It's always exciting to see a team like Force India fighting their way up from mid pack and being rewarded. If more equal payout means more privateers, then so be it.

[mertol]

You know there are teams like Ferrari, Mclaren, Williams and then there are fillers that will be gone at the first sign of trouble. F1 should do everything possible to keep the teams that are 30+ years in the sport.

[marmer]

Ferrari throws toys out of the pram just because they are not winning.
Perhaps a system that could be introduced would be an alternative history payments.

According to auto sport Ferrari got$68 history payments.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/12938 ... 7-revealed

I would build in an automated system that teams that stay in F1 for consecutive years would earn more history starting it for teams that have been around for ten years and have not failed to score a point in a season.
Cap Ferrari at current level. Teams that qualify would start at $10m going up $1m every year teams stay and get points. If they fail to get points they take a cut back in history so one bad year would not result in a total loss of funds.

[Manoah2u]

For all their whining, Ferrari may leave as far as i'm concerned.

Ferrari gets a much bigger cut than the rest of the field and still isnt able to grab the WCC/WDC,
and still crybabies around and demands everything changes - or stays the same - just so that they can have an advantage,
which they already have through the money that's thrown to them just for participating

if there's anything unfair, it's how Ferrari is treaded compared to the rest.

Imagine if all that money that goes to Ferrari 'just because they're Ferrari' would go to the smaller teams or spread evenly
amongst the teams, how much improvement that would make for those teams, or atleast for their survival.

instead, Ferrari has 'veto' rights and uses them whenever it fits them.
That is not the Ferrari i love.

For all their boasting and screaming, i'd really would like them to be put to their place and get a wake up call by actually leaving Formula 1,
and entering LeMans, WDC or whatever class and not get any beneficial treatment there either and then face the results, which will
undoubtedly be exactly the same as in F1. Please, do that and then come back and let's talk.
They really have an attitude problem.

I love Ferrari, really do. But their contineous annual whining is really beyond annoying.

Meanwhile, as for Mclaren; what's really left of them after 2009? What have they proven to achieve still? Williams like wise. Nothing but an endless pit
of throwing money into and seeing it have no performane results whatsoever.

The biggest success stories of recent are Mercedes and RedBull, both essentially non-historic teams, as you should see Mercedes as what it is; a renaming and restructuring of BrawnGP, which was Honda before, and RedBull is an energy drinks giant.

Meanwhile, those names may diseappear at most, but will be replaced by buyers and investers that have other interests. Kia, Lidl, AliExpress, Lay's, whatever if you may.
will there still be competition like now? hell yeah! they'll just carry different names, that's it.
And exactly because of that, an actual exodus won't happen. Why allow or live with Kia taking over your Mercedes brand and do just as good?

[Just_a_fan]

People talk about Ferrari and McLaren being historic, but others have been in F1 for a long time in one form or other. Minardi, for example, is now called Toro Rosso but the team as an entity has been in F1 since the mid-80s, Sauber since the mid-90s, Renault has been in and out in one form or other since the mid-70s (and been very successful as an engine maker during that period).

Without the little teams, there is no championship. Without one big team such as Ferrari, there is a championship.

If Ferrari need all the extra money and a veto and still struggle then they need to consider their own position. Threaten to leave of you must but be prepared to do so. Liberty must be prepared for them to do so too.

F1 is bigger than one team.

[ian_s]

I say take out the big teams. No team is bigger than the championship. Of the 'big' teams we have now, only Ferrari have a history. Mercedes and Red Bull are recent newcomers. F1 would survive without Ferrari, and probably thrive with all that extra money available to other teams.

[PlatinumZealot]

Need more options in the poll.

Historic teams are important to keeping the wider fan base. But at the same time, you cannot neglect the small teams. McLaren, Williams, Ferrari were once the new guys and they got the chance to build up to where they are now. Small teams in the present era should be given a fair chance to do the same.

Mercedes on their return were also largely classed as a small team until they ramped up their budget but strangely they still weren't really given that historic respect until they won their first championship in the V6 era.

[Just_a_fan]

Mercedes were in F1 briefly in the mid-50s, they're not "recent newcomers". Indeed, Mercedes have been involved in racing at least as long as the Ferrari team. Mercedes have just as much right to "historic status" as anyone.

[Hail22]

I'd like to see what will happen if/when liberty media declines to maintain or increase Ferrari' participation / historic fee. Why?

I honestly feel Ferrari will put up and shut up and maintain the status quo, they're in Formula 1 for exposure and money (which a lot comes from merchandising etc) For them to shut up shop and leave Formula 1 and create a new series will suck out a lot of money from their coffers to which shareholders and stakeholders alike will vote down.

[Maritimer]

Ferrari as a brand exist to support the F1 program, full stop. If anything the new Alfa venture will be a way for Fiat to stay in the sport and let Ferrari have their pageant if/when they get approval to end the program.

It'll never happen, any one team who thinks they're more important than any other can go pound sand and should be told as much by FOM.

[roon]

Formula 1 needs to increase the spectacle...

The people and institutions which finance F1 are not concerned with this, never have been. The spectacle of F1 is something that spectators can't access. That is why F1 is and has been considered exclusive. If one wants F1 to become more accessible and spectacular, one must first become a millionaire.

[Thunder]

I say no Team can be allowed to hold F1 hostage. If you're not happy feel free to leave. That said Ferrari will not leave F1, it's just the annual quit Threat over some advantages they fear to loose. Just visit the Ferrari Museum one Day, Ferrari is too deeply connected to F1 to just throw away.

[Andres125sx]

YES


Ecclestone stated they helped Ferrari more than once to be the best when they had some problem and avoid Ferrari leaving. Anything is better to a fake competition

OTOH, F1 survived when McLaren went out, F1 survived when Mercedes went out, F1 survived when any other historic team went out. Not sure what are people toughts, but I can´t grasp how some people assume Ferrari is crucial for F1 or F1 would suffer if Ferrari go out. Ferrari is just one team, no competition depends on any team, period