2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[Redragon]

so where are the hundreds of Honda millions?

Partly on Alonso salary and free engines. Still if it wasn't the case loosing 60 millions on sponsor budget and becoming a costumer team it is slightly worried. The lost for 2018 it will be much more than 10 millions and if they don't do well on 2018 they are gonna struggle big time on 2019. No money = no results. So far it looks they are heading to become the new Willams, loosing their old days greatness and becoming a midfield team.

[McHonda]

Any confirmation they paid Alonso's salary? Free engines pushes it to about (effectively) 80m and considering it's in Autosport and who owns it I think that's about the best confirmation of Honda's input we have.

Tricky to recoup 80m in one year for Zak for sure but not impossible. If he gets half that and increased prize money if they get 4th it will soften the blow considerably.

[diffuser]

- The cost of the PUs have dropped to €12m (£10.5m) this year (The 100m was from the 1st year, PU were about 30M then.) Also not sure if they were originally talking £100m or €100m.

So maybe the value of Honda's contribution would have dropped to £70.5m in 2018....

- Red Bull FOM income was +£50m @£125m which Mclaren is expecting to get closer to next year.


Sounds feasible to replace the 70.5.
The "MAXED" Revenue + decreased in expenses possible with HONDA, if they could produce a comparable PU, isn't.

They must not have had any confidence in Honda left to break up the agreement.

[McHonda]

I think they just felt it would take too long to bridge the gap and were worried they'd be approaching a point of no return if they lost their driver,potential sponsor(s) and any technical talent who's deal is up with Renault sniffing around.

I think Zak confirmed they talked about suspending the partnership as well as other options so it was obviously a very hard decision and breaking completely was the last choice so I don't think they felt Honda would never get there but rather another 1 or 2 seasons fighting FI instead of the big 3 could condemn them to the midfield for good much like what happened to Williams but obviously that's just my opinion.

[diffuser]

Maybe this is why https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... up-991771/


Looks like a new design for 2018 .....Maybe that the Spec $ Wazari always talked about ....

[Redragon]

Any confirmation they paid Alonso's salary? Free engines pushes it to about (effectively) 80m and considering it's in Autosport and who owns it I think that's about the best confirmation of Honda's input we have.

Tricky to recoup 80m in one year for Zak for sure but not impossible. If he gets half that and increased prize money if they get 4th it will soften the blow considerably.

Half of the salary is paid by Honda http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/207 ... ndo-alonso

[Redragon]

So if my calculations are right and based on your comments.

Mclaren loose 60millions from Honda + no more free engines, minimum engines for 2018 is 3 , so 3X£10m = £30millions + add the half salary Honda was paying for Alonso salary which in pounds is £15 millions that's a total of £105 millions that Mclaren have to cover and find after their swap and abandon their partnership with Honda for 2018.

So yep easy to find. specially when you just aspire to be 4th or 3rd team.

Time to face reality fellas.

[RedNEO]

So if my calculations are right and based on your comments.

Mclaren loose 60millions from Honda + no more free engines, minimum engines for 2018 is 3 , so 3X£10m = £30millions + add the half salary Honda was paying for Alonso salary which in pounds is £15 millions that's a total of £105 millions that Mclaren have to cover and find after their swap and abandon their partnership with Honda for 2018.

So yep easy to find. specially when you just aspire to be 4th or 3rd team.

Time to face reality fellas.

The reality is McLaren don’t need Honda’s money. The sooner you realise that the less time you will waste talking about it.

[diffuser]

So if my calculations are right and based on your comments.

Mclaren loose 60millions from Honda + no more free engines, minimum engines for 2018 is 3 , so 3X£10m = £30millions + add the half salary Honda was paying for Alonso salary which in pounds is £15 millions that's a total of £105 millions that Mclaren have to cover and find after their swap and abandon their partnership with Honda for 2018.

So yep easy to find. specially when you just aspire to be 4th or 3rd team.

Time to face reality fellas.

Ahhh no, the €13m is for all the PUs and the staff to manage them. Doesn't include lubricants and transmission.
From:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13136 ... --mercedes
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016/01 ... f-engines/

[Redragon]

So if my calculations are right and based on your comments.

Mclaren loose 60millions from Honda + no more free engines, minimum engines for 2018 is 3 , so 3X£10m = £30millions + add the half salary Honda was paying for Alonso salary which in pounds is £15 millions that's a total of £105 millions that Mclaren have to cover and find after their swap and abandon their partnership with Honda for 2018.

So yep easy to find. specially when you just aspire to be 4th or 3rd team.

Time to face reality fellas.

Ahhh no, the €13m is for all the PUs and the staff to manage them. Doesn't include lubricants and transmission.
From:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13136 ... --mercedes
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016/01 ... f-engines/

Still £90 millions to fulfill, big ask!

[Redragon]

So if my calculations are right and based on your comments.

Mclaren loose 60millions from Honda + no more free engines, minimum engines for 2018 is 3 , so 3X£10m = £30millions + add the half salary Honda was paying for Alonso salary which in pounds is £15 millions that's a total of £105 millions that Mclaren have to cover and find after their swap and abandon their partnership with Honda for 2018.

So yep easy to find. specially when you just aspire to be 4th or 3rd team.

Time to face reality fellas.

The reality is McLaren don’t need Honda’s money. The sooner you realise that the less time you will waste talking about it.

I open to discussion, this is a forum, if you don't want to join it don't do it, but don't tell me what to talk about or not because I am free to think and talk of what I want within the rules of the forum and respecting their users.

They finish 2017 with a lost of £10 millions, so starting 2018 with a £90 millions deficit + £10 lost of this year it is a total of £100 millions they have to fulfill. For just an engine that will brings them to be 4th or 3rd team. Big risk if you ask, I hope you are right that Mclaren doesn't need that money. Otherwise you are looking to another Williams case.

[RedNEO]

So if my calculations are right and based on your comments.

Mclaren loose 60millions from Honda + no more free engines, minimum engines for 2018 is 3 , so 3X£10m = £30millions + add the half salary Honda was paying for Alonso salary which in pounds is £15 millions that's a total of £105 millions that Mclaren have to cover and find after their swap and abandon their partnership with Honda for 2018.

So yep easy to find. specially when you just aspire to be 4th or 3rd team.

Time to face reality fellas.

The reality is McLaren don’t need Honda’s money. The sooner you realise that the less time you will waste talking about it.

I open to discussion, this is a forum, if you don't want to join it don't do it, but don't tell me what to talk about or not because I am free to think and talk of what I want within the rules of the forum and respecting their users.

They finish 2017 with a lost of £10 millions, so starting 2018 with a £90 millions deficit + £10 lost of this year it is a total of £100 millions they have to fulfill. For just an engine that will brings them to be 4th or 3rd team. Big risk if you ask, I hope you are right that Mclaren doesn't need that money. Otherwise you are looking to another Williams case.

Well if they took a loss with Honda’s 60 million that already tells you everything you need to know as to why it made the decision even easier. Doesn’t matter how much Honda paid it won’t fix the fact there engine is awful and cost McLaren championship positions and money. McLaren profit by ditching Honda and fighting at the front with a superior engine and regaining prize money,attracting new sponsors, retaining staff and star drivers. They already have two new sponsors to be announced just by switching. And they have backers who will cover the costs from the Honda debacle.

[Redragon]

The reality is McLaren don’t need Honda’s money. The sooner you realise that the less time you will waste talking about it.

I open to discussion, this is a forum, if you don't want to join it don't do it, but don't tell me what to talk about or not because I am free to think and talk of what I want within the rules of the forum and respecting their users.

They finish 2017 with a lost of £10 millions, so starting 2018 with a £90 millions deficit + £10 lost of this year it is a total of £100 millions they have to fulfill. For just an engine that will brings them to be 4th or 3rd team. Big risk if you ask, I hope you are right that Mclaren doesn't need that money. Otherwise you are looking to another Williams case.

Well if they took a loss with Honda’s 60 million that already tells you everything you need to know as to why it made the decision even easier. Doesn’t matter how much Honda paid it won’t fix the fact there engine is awful and cost McLaren championship positions and money. McLaren profit by ditching Honda and fighting at the front with a superior engine and regaining prize money,attracting new sponsors, retaining staff and star drivers. They already have two new sponsors to be announced just by switching. And they have backers who will cover the costs from the Honda debacle.

But as you said "If", also there are two sponsors leaving. 2018 has to go too perfect for them to recover all that money, specially on a market where the interest for F1 is in decline. As I said it is a big risk to swap to just be a 3rd or 4th team on the grid and become a costumer team not a partnership. I hope 2018 goes great for Mclaren as for Honda but I like to be realistic and for now their future economically doesn't look too good from a business point of view. The question is could they they get the hit if 2018 doesn't go as great as they think?

[Alonso Fan]

Meanwhile Honda have just said they hope to get the 2018 engine specifications finalised soon... And that they have the 2017 unit as a backup in case of issues...

I'm not sure which part of that I'm worried about most

[Redragon]

Meanwhile Honda have just said they hope to get the 2018 engine specifications finalised soon... And that they have the 2017 unit as a backup in case of issues...

I'm not sure which part of that I'm worried about most

If, and I say "If", that Honda engine finish working on reavility as deployment even with same HP as 2017 that apparently is just 26HP under Renault engine the big winner of all of this is Toro Rosso with £60 millions of extra cash.