Would F1 be improved by having 5 speed gearboxes again?

[dave kumar]

https://www.formula1.com/en/championshi ... arbox.html ...The rules stipulate that F1 gearboxes must consist of eight forward gears (the ratios having been selected ahead of the season) plus reverse, and although this may seem like a large number compared to a road car, it allows the teams to use the same transmission at low-speed Monaco as at high-speed Monza.

Doing a bit of research, it looks like that by the end of the 1970s a few teams (Brabham, Mclaren,...) were already using 6 speed gearboxes and then in the mid 90s I believe the FIA allowed teams to run a minimum of 4 and a maximum of 7 forward gears and of course we are now up to 8 forward gears.

I was wondering if we went back to a 5 speed gearbox whether the fact that the engine would have to use a wider rev range to reach a given speed, would give another dimension to help differentiate the power units. So for example if one of the engine manufacturers had produced an engine that had less peak power but had a wider band of power delivery or was less 'peaky' in its power delivery and was therefore more drive-able (much like the V8 Renault engine was rumoured to be).

There may be some other added benefits to having fewer gears to choose from, as choosing the right ratios for a given track is more challenging as the fewer gears you have will mean you are likely to have to compromise more on your selection. Maybe the cars would even sound better if they used a bit more of their rev range!

I think you'd have to let the teams have a freer reign in selecting ratios during the season for the reasons stated in the quote above, so more cost but are there any other down-side to reducing the number of forward gears the cars have?

[megz]

I think it was Patrick Head that claimed the power-units have a wide enough power-band to not require all 8 gears when they were introduced. Teams could choose to use less gears and keep the higher (6th - 8th) gears as longer overtake gears if needed but given the fuel flow limit at 10,500rpm there is no incentive to push up to the 15,000rpm and have a wide power band.

Presumably the 8 ratios are tuned to keep the engines in a fairly narrow powerband and avoid the extra stress of higher RPMs. Hence the engines really only operating between 9,000 - 12,000rpm during a race - barring Monza in a tow where they get closer to the rev limit.

[mclaren111]

I would also prefer 5/6 speed box.

Engine will sound much better as they will have to use all the revs (15 000) to reach top speed.

They also need to get away from this fuel flow limit. It's just not F1 for me.

[marmer]

Personally a single speed would be cool konenigsegg Regera only has 1 it has a much higher top speed but that could be sacrificed to improve acceleration combined with much lower weight of an F1 car and yes get rid of fuel flow limits

[wesley123]

https://www.formula1.com/en/championshi ... arbox.html ...The rules stipulate that F1 gearboxes must consist of eight forward gears (the ratios having been selected ahead of the season) plus reverse, and although this may seem like a large number compared to a road car, it allows the teams to use the same transmission at low-speed Monaco as at high-speed Monza.

I was wondering if we went back to a 5 speed gearbox whether the fact that the engine would have to use a wider rev range to reach a given speed, would give another dimension to help differentiate the power units.

Sure it would, and further widening the gap for Mercedes to the rest, the thing everyone is bitching about since 2014.

There may be some other added benefits to having fewer gears to choose from, as choosing the right ratios for a given track is more challenging as the fewer gears you have will mean you are likely to have to compromise more on your selection. Maybe the cars would even sound better if they used a bit more of their rev range!

Choosing ratios(assuming this is allowed, which it isn't) wouldn't be any more challenging. Teams all have simulators and thus will most likely be able to tune gear ratios to perfection.

As for the sound, prepare to be disappointed(which is what happens with most of the new rule changes). Sound is essentially wasted energy, thus, in an efficiency based formula it only makes sense to not have such loud engines. Plus, the loss of damage to your hearing will come in handy in everyday life!

I think you'd have to let the teams have a freer reign in selecting ratios during the season for the reasons stated in the quote above, so more cost but are there any other down-side to reducing the number of forward gears the cars have?

There aren't really any upsides to the move either, just like any other "this will fix F1, previous ideas wouldn't, but this one certainly will!" idea. I'm really waiting for someone to suggest placing the drivers upside down in their car.

[AJI]

I'd say 'no'? Purely on the premise that F1 is supposed to be 'pinnacle of motorsport'...
Most cars have had 6 speeds or more for many years. My mother's Hyundai has a 6 speed!

[Webber2011]

I'd say 'no'? Purely on the premise that F1 is supposed to be 'pinnacle of motorsport'...
Most cars have had 6 speeds or more for many years. My mother's Hyundai has a 6 speed!

And what have you revved that up to when she lent it to you to go down the shops

[dave kumar]

...There aren't really any upsides to the move either, just like any other "this will fix F1, previous ideas wouldn't, but this one certainly will!" idea. I'm really waiting for someone to suggest placing the drivers upside down in their car.

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting this would magically fix F1. I'm interested in what effect it would have and if anybody has any insight into this.

Choosing ratios(assuming this is allowed, which it isn't) wouldn't be any more challenging. Teams all have simulators and thus will most likely be able to tune gear ratios to perfection.

Partly my suggestion was motivated by the idea of removing the possibility of an optimal selection of gear ratios for a track. If you have less gears to play with, could you make the case that there will be fewer corners where the engine is in the optimum rev range? Thus the setup will always be more of a compromise and we increase the chance that the teams will diverge in their gear ratio selection.

It can sometimes be instructive to look at the limits, in this case a (hypothetical) infinite number of forward gears, something like CVT (Continuous Variable Transmission) would allow the engine to be kept at its optimum rev range for the entire lap. I would say this is less desirable as it removes a dimension that differentiates how teams setup their cars.

Personally a single speed would be cool konenigsegg Regera only has 1...

Again I feel that this also removes a variable in the car setup, although it would be interesting to hear what the car sounds like round a lap!

Just think back a few years to when they introduced the law requiring teams to specify their gear ratios at the start of a season. There was a lot of speculation on this forum as to what ratios teams would select and the anticipation was that teams would diverge in their selection based on a number of factors - low drag philosophy vs high drag, etc. But we didn't see this or at least any differences in selection was too small to be visible to viewers. Was this because they had 8 gears and the spacing between the gears is so close? Would it be any different with 5 gears? What I'm really interested in is whether a change in this area could produce divergent strategies between teams. If so I would be in favour.

[AJI]

And what have you revved that up to when she lent it to you to go down the shops

Mate, I had it singing all the way to 4500!

[PlatinumZealot]

Better keep it 8 speed. 5 speed is too little.

[dave kumar]

Better keep it 8 speed. 5 speed is too little.

I'm interested in why 8 gears is preferable to 6, 5 or 4... or 20? What makes it the optimum number for the current regulations. It feels to me at least that if you go higher then 8 then you're heading in to CVT territory and gearing is a diminishing factor in car setup. May be that is the right way to go for the future, gears do seem a bit last century.

[marmer]

Can we go back to a stick shift and a clutch peddle just for a change up. Really make the drivers work for a change

[netoperek]

With weight limit relitvely high with current regs, giving some room for more gears or any other additional hardware, I would like to see more liberal approach - let the teams do as they please, unless its CVT or automatic. That way we might finally see some creative solutions, perhaps something revolutionary could evolve with such freedom given to some of the best engineers in the world.

[PlatinumZealot]

Better keep it 8 speed. 5 speed is too little.

I'm interested in why 8 gears is preferable to 6, 5 or 4... or 20? What makes it the optimum number for the current regulations. It feels to me at least that if you go higher then 8 then you're heading in to CVT territory and gearing is a diminishing factor in car setup. May be that is the right way to go for the future, gears do seem a bit last century.

The single set of gear ratios rule hugely limits the usability of the same 5 ratios over the entire season!

[krisfx]

Can we go back to a stick shift and a clutch peddle just for a change up. Really make the drivers work for a change

Because sustaining up to and above 5G over a 2 hour period while simultaneously adjusting over 30 switches and their associated sub functions, racing other cars and managing fuel,tyres and temps is easy..

And I'm sat thinking this was a technical forum!