Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

[baybars]

In interview with Jo Ramirez, there are speculations and promise from Renault and Prost that Mclaren in Melbourne will have same HP as last year Mercedes.

If is true, this might put Red Bull in very good position and Mclaren and Renault factory team as well will be very strong.

I'm not so sure Renault will supply RBR with the "best" & "latest" PU. As we know RBR's contract with Renault ends this year.

Changes of Renault renewing the contract are very slim. Makes sense to work closer with McLaren for the next 3 years.

RBR could also pass information to Honda to help them speed up their progress.

I agree with you. I think Redbull will not get latest spec PU and technical details from Renault

Marko said that:
Unlike last year, Renault makesbut also against engine partner Red Bull no concrete statements

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... 11539.html

[Mansell89]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the relative performance gains guys.

I know it’s all a rumour mill at the moment but good to hear regardless. Hopefully we do see some engine convergence because I think we desperately want multi-team battles for race wins and closely matched fights on track.

My biggest concern for Renault is the 3 engine rule this season- it’s a big ask to close the gap on Mercedes PU as well as staying reliable, but they appear to have done much of their lesson-learning on track last year, so hopefully much better reliability this year.

[carisi2k]

Renault 2017. PU had showen progres at the and of season. Even Verstapen dominant victory in Mexico , although factory team and TR had problems whith performance/reliability balance at high altitude. But Hulk performance at last race clearly show the progres of Renault PU.
Toro Roso car was compromised for 2017. PU and doesn't have internal cooling requires for continually power improving Renault PU.

In that very same race with a relatively new engine Daniel Ricciardo had his 3rd dnf from engine failure out of 4 races. RBR would like some of that progress you talk about.

We all know the issues between RBR and Renault and I think it is in their best interests to go there separate ways sooner rather then later. If RBR get the same engine as Renault and if it is as good as Renault say then RBR will give Renault
and Mclaren the biggest butt wiping ever.

I don't think there is anything viable that Honda could learn from RBR about the Renault engine as the architectures are different and Red Bull hasn't had anything but Honda's running on the test bench at the factory since the TR Honda announcement at Singapore from my understanding. RBR has been completely taken out of the loop by Renault.

[Vladimir]

For sure, If McLaren or Renault beat RBR, then the main reason will be not the same engine specifications for all three team.
But, we will never know is it true.
I hope Renault will work closer with Mclaren, they have the same lubricant partner also.
So, RBR should be happy if they been given at least reliable specification.

[63l8qrrfy6]

Such behavior after "problems" which TR faced at end of 2017(fighting with renault...) will just cement the feelings that Renault are not good for engine supplier.
Being paid for engines and sabotaging the deal... its worse than what Mercedes is doing and on the edge of class action.
I don't think Liberty will be happy to get such "publicity"

What exactly is Mercedes doing ?

Also why are people so quick to assume Renault will try to screw over everyone ?

Why is the general opinion that every manufacturer is only looking to cheat, bend the rules, deceive, lie and sabotage ?

Whenever someone gains an advantage it is attributed to either some form of cheating or sci fi tech. Sometimes both.

[Vladimir]

RBR use Toro Roso last year, for public critics of Renault PU, because they sounded dumb in previous complaining, but took so many podiums and winnings.
They play dirty politics and show no respect at all.
Renault should put the end of contract with them, but they will probably left F1 because neither manufacturer want to give engine to them.

[GhostF1]

Renault 2017. PU had showen progres at the and of season. Even Verstapen dominant victory in Mexico , although factory team and TR had problems whith performance/reliability balance at high altitude. But Hulk performance at last race clearly show the progres of Renault PU.
Toro Roso car was compromised for 2017. PU and doesn't have internal cooling requires for continually power improving Renault PU.

That's a foolish claim. To say the STR12 was compromised because they "suddenly" didn't meet the cooling requirements 3/4 of the way through the season.. that's a Renault issue. It has been well established that towards the end of the season Renault ramped down production of new parts so TR was given new used parts, that was the cause for the failures, not "suddenly changed minimum cooling requirements". Franz is not a man who would publicly retaliate if there was no reason behind it.

[Neno]

Renault was really agressive last quarter of the last season with engine development. Believe it or not. To a point where they couldnt produce enough replacement parts in time. They tested and pushed unit at it maximum. Some teams suffered because of cooling issues which caused reliability issues. They were expected.

Those tests and preps were done in advance so Viry can focus on fixing it for next year. They wanted to see how long can they push unit before it breaks (during race and qualies), how much and which teams will survive cooling problems (different cooling configurations) and which will not in different conditions on different tracks. Those were all preparations for this year which will focus not anymore on extracting few extra horse power, but will focus on reliability side.

Did Renault solve and found solution for those issues during this winter, we will not know till winter test and first 3 races of the year. But all signs point they are working on those issues.

That's why Toro Rosso had major problems with Renault last year. They fought for championship points in standing for money reward and Renault basically used them, Red Bull and also their own team to a certain point as guinea pig for next season. Red Bull didnt complain much because they knew they would use at least one more year Renault unit and wanted previously from Renault to be agressive in developing a unit, but people in Toro Rosso after it was announced they will partner with Honda felt betrayed a bit at the end of season.

[GhostF1]

Renault was really agressive last quarter of the last season with engine development. Believe it or not. To a point where they couldnt produce enough replacement parts in time. They tested and pushed unit at it maximum. Some teams suffered because of cooling issues which caused reliability issues. They were expected.

Those tests and preps were done in advance so Viry can focus on fixing it for next year. They wanted to see how long can they push unit before it breaks (during race and qualies), how much and which teams will survive cooling problems (different cooling configurations) and which will not in different conditions on different tracks. Those were all preparations for this year which will focus not anymore on extracting few extra horse power, but will focus on reliability side.

Did Renault solve and found solution for those issues during this winter, we will not know till winter test and first 3 races of the year. But all signs point they are working on those issues.

That's why Toro Rosso had major problems with Renault last year. They fought for championship points in standing for money reward and Renault basically used them, Red Bull and also their own team to a certain point as guinea pig for next season. Red Bull didnt complain much because they knew they would use at least one more year Renault unit and wanted previously from Renault to be agressive in developing a unit, but people in Toro Rosso after it was announced they will partner with Honda felt betrayed a bit at the end of season.

I think that's well understood, that Renault started to really lean on the PU towards the end of the season, however TR did not say a thing until Cyril made a comment about their inadequate cooling requirements being the key issue to the press.
Only when Cyril said that publicly did Franz Tost put out a statement directly countering that claim then mentioning the inadequate quality parts.

Renault may have been using them as a testbed to see how far they could push the PU for R&D purposes, or maybe they just went a little too far this time, whatever the reason, STR are not to blame here, they are merely playing pawn to Renault's plans.
And I for one will never ignore the fact that directly due to these issues, they managed to overtake them in the standings and get more money. You cannot say it wasn't beneficial to them in every way, even if it means dishonouring a contract or just being dodgy..

[restless]

Such behavior after "problems" which TR faced at end of 2017(fighting with renault...) will just cement the feelings that Renault are not good for engine supplier.
Being paid for engines and sabotaging the deal... its worse than what Mercedes is doing and on the edge of class action.
I don't think Liberty will be happy to get such "publicity"

What exactly is Mercedes doing ?

Also why are people so quick to assume Renault will try to screw over everyone ?

Why is the general opinion that every manufacturer is only looking to cheat, bend the rules, deceive, lie and sabotage ?

Whenever someone gains an advantage it is attributed to either some form of cheating or sci fi tech. Sometimes both.

Its a well known fact that Mercedes doesn't give full control (or access to all software capabilities) to client teams. But at least they never sabotaged a client team like Renault did last season in order to overtake TR.

[Vladimir]

Such behavior after "problems" which TR faced at end of 2017(fighting with renault...) will just cement the feelings that Renault are not good for engine supplier.
Being paid for engines and sabotaging the deal... its worse than what Mercedes is doing and on the edge of class action.
I don't think Liberty will be happy to get such "publicity"

What exactly is Mercedes doing ?

Also why are people so quick to assume Renault will try to screw over everyone ?

Why is the general opinion that every manufacturer is only looking to cheat, bend the rules, deceive, lie and sabotage ?

Whenever someone gains an advantage it is attributed to either some form of cheating or sci fi tech. Sometimes both.

Its a well known fact that Mercedes doesn't give full control (or access to all software capabilities) to client teams. But at least they never sabotaged a client team like Renault did last season in order to overtake TR.

That is nonsense claim.

[Vladimir]

Renault 2017. PU had showen progres at the and of season. Even Verstapen dominant victory in Mexico , although factory team and TR had problems whith performance/reliability balance at high altitude. But Hulk performance at last race clearly show the progres of Renault PU.
Toro Roso car was compromised for 2017. PU and doesn't have internal cooling requires for continually power improving Renault PU.

That's a foolish claim. To say the STR12 was compromised because they "suddenly" didn't meet the cooling requirements 3/4 of the way through the season.. that's a Renault issue. It has been well established that towards the end of the season Renault ramped down production of new parts so TR was given new used parts, that was the cause for the failures, not "suddenly changed minimum cooling requirements". Franz is not a man who would publicly retaliate if there was no reason behind it.

You didn't understrand. TR initial cooling requires doesn' change by the end of last season as much as Renault PU power is.
And that car was not even initaly design for Renault PU.

[carisi2k]

Renault was really agressive last quarter of the last season with engine development. Believe it or not. To a point where they couldnt produce enough replacement parts in time. They tested and pushed unit at it maximum. Some teams suffered because of cooling issues which caused reliability issues. They were expected.

Those tests and preps were done in advance so Viry can focus on fixing it for next year. They wanted to see how long can they push unit before it breaks (during race and qualies), how much and which teams will survive cooling problems (different cooling configurations) and which will not in different conditions on different tracks. Those were all preparations for this year which will focus not anymore on extracting few extra horse power, but will focus on reliability side.

Did Renault solve and found solution for those issues during this winter, we will not know till winter test and first 3 races of the year. But all signs point they are working on those issues.

That's why Toro Rosso had major problems with Renault last year. They fought for championship points in standing for money reward and Renault basically used them, Red Bull and also their own team to a certain point as guinea pig for next season. Red Bull didnt complain much because they knew they would use at least one more year Renault unit and wanted previously from Renault to be agressive in developing a unit, but people in Toro Rosso after it was announced they will partner with Honda felt betrayed a bit at the end of season.

What a load of crap this is. Renault went nowhere with development at the end of last year. They had the same unit in race one as they did in race 20. They couldn't produce enough replacement parts because the engines they had were all blowing up. Red Bull won races on luck in Baku and mexico and Hamilton preferring to not race max in Malaysia allowed him to win their.

The 2018 Renault is just what the 2017 Renault was supposed to be with the exception that it "might" actually be reliable. Do not expect a huge performance boost from Renault because if there was then Red Bull would be much happier and not singing the praises of Honda as they are who they know has significantly improved with there 2018 engine.

Do not be surprised that with all this delay in getting a 2018 Renault engine in the RB14 that Red Bull decided long ago that they would be using a tag heuer branded 2018 Honda instead of a Renault engine.

[Vladimir]

Renault was really agressive last quarter of the last season with engine development. Believe it or not. To a point where they couldnt produce enough replacement parts in time. They tested and pushed unit at it maximum. Some teams suffered because of cooling issues which caused reliability issues. They were expected.

Those tests and preps were done in advance so Viry can focus on fixing it for next year. They wanted to see how long can they push unit before it breaks (during race and qualies), how much and which teams will survive cooling problems (different cooling configurations) and which will not in different conditions on different tracks. Those were all preparations for this year which will focus not anymore on extracting few extra horse power, but will focus on reliability side.

Did Renault solve and found solution for those issues during this winter, we will not know till winter test and first 3 races of the year. But all signs point they are working on those issues.

That's why Toro Rosso had major problems with Renault last year. They fought for championship points in standing for money reward and Renault basically used them, Red Bull and also their own team to a certain point as guinea pig for next season. Red Bull didnt complain much because they knew they would use at least one more year Renault unit and wanted previously from Renault to be agressive in developing a unit, but people in Toro Rosso after it was announced they will partner with Honda felt betrayed a bit at the end of season.

What a load of crap this is. Renault went nowhere with development at the end of last year. They had the same unit in race one as they did in race 20. They couldn't produce enough replacement parts because the engines they had were all blowing up. Red Bull won races on luck in Baku and mexico and Hamilton preferring to not race max in Malaysia allowed him to win their.

The 2018 Renault is just what the 2017 Renault was supposed to be with the exception that it "might" actually be reliable. Do not expect a huge performance boost from Renault because if there was then Red Bull would be much happier and not singing the praises of Honda as they are who they know has significantly improved with there 2018 engine.

Do not be surprised that with all this delay in getting a 2018 Renault engine in the RB14 that Red Bull decided long ago that they would be using a tag heuer branded 2018 Honda instead of a Renault engine.

That is all only your subjective opinion with nonsense claim that Renault couldn't produce enough parts.
Renault doesn,t want to deliver part to TR enymore and that is big diference.
Even foolish is claim that Renault were nowhere with development. They have no solutions for performance/ reliability banance. Lack of time, nothing more, because 2017. PU was all new engine structure, with much more performance to unlock.

[carisi2k]

you said they couldn't provide enough parts in your post and it was shown at the end of last year that the toro rosso was running on spare parts and a significantly down tuned engine. Not my opinion but facts born out at the end of last season.