2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

[Manoah2u]

The white reminds me of the Super Aguri

https://images.hgmsites.net/med/super-a ... 0346_m.jpg

i have experienced F1 good enough in the early nineties to maintain that that was the absolute pinnacle of having the most amazing machines in F1 ever and imho will allways be the real platinum gold era of f1, due to a combination of having not only the most incredible raw machinery, that reached agonizing speeds and cornering capabilities aswell as technological gizmos that are drool worthy, but also having the most incredible and manly tracks to reach those speeds on, aswell as a mix of absolute greats retiring/reaching their 'natural' competitive end aswell as young guns and legends that went too soon. (mansell, prost, piquet, senna, schumacher, hakkinnen, etc.) and legendary teams (tyrrell, lotus, mclaren, ferrari, bennetton, ligier, williams (in their prime), brabham, etc.), powerful engines in a variety of manufacturers (ferrari, renault, honda, mercedes, peugeot, cosworth / ford, hart, BMW, etc) AND the lifestyle around it (really extremely talented 'normal' guys, not ruled by paydrivers or money neccesity but enough wealth around already, glitter and glamour, hot women, and all reachable and tickets were not beyond absurd costs).

and frankly, all years after and to be honest from what i view all before all fail humongeously compared to that absolute moment of greatness bar some incidentical great moments (lauda, hunt, gilles villeneuve, piquet).

nevertheless, there were some great moments in f1 still afterwards. I agree that the Super Aguri team was one of those moments in time that reminded of the 'old days'. It was i think the last era of F1 cars being raw F1 and sport, where not long after, it turned into rocketships with complicated engines, complicated aerodynamics, complicated suspensions, tire management, complicated steering wheels, complicated rules, and lots of financial trouble due to high costs, global world economy getting hurt, several controversions hitting the sport, and the sport or 'leadership' aging without much vision.

f1 is in turmoil still now, but atleast the leadership has a vision about where to go, renewing the sport and breathing fresh life into it, making it more approachable again and seemingly having the intention too to lower costs and bring back exciting manufacturers.

[63l8qrrfy6]

Each event will use the power unit for ~800km. 305km for the race, then another ~350km for practice, another 100km for qualifying, the rest is formation, parade and installation laps.

So around 17,000km for the season. If the Honda PU only lasts 2,500km that's at least 6 power units.

I agree with your assessment but I will go with 7 PUs just because dyno kilometers are milder than real ones.

[kasio]

Each event will use the power unit for ~800km. 305km for the race, then another ~350km for practice, another 100km for qualifying, the rest is formation, parade and installation laps.

So around 17,000km for the season. If the Honda PU only lasts 2,500km that's at least 6 power units.

I agree with your assessment but I will go with 7 PUs just because dyno kilometers are milder than real ones.

Its not that simple. They do not count simple kms they count more like time in different engine modes. for practice, formations, warmup and so on You use modes which can be used for extended periods.

[63l8qrrfy6]

Each event will use the power unit for ~800km. 305km for the race, then another ~350km for practice, another 100km for qualifying, the rest is formation, parade and installation laps.

So around 17,000km for the season. If the Honda PU only lasts 2,500km that's at least 6 power units.

I agree with your assessment but I will go with 7 PUs just because dyno kilometers are milder than real ones.

Its not that simple. They do not count simple kms they count more like time in different engine modes. for practice, formations, warmup and so on You use modes which can be used for extended periods.

The engine load/speed profiles they run on the dyno closely match race/qualy laps. They will run all the different modes on the dyno for as long as they expect to run them in the real world.

[HPD]

I think Honda will present a completely new engine in Spain. Then, the first engine should last only 4 GP.
Another for Silverstone
Other Monza / Singapure
Other USA

[etusch]

I agree with your assessment but I will go with 7 PUs just because dyno kilometers are milder than real ones.

Its not that simple. They do not count simple kms they count more like time in different engine modes. for practice, formations, warmup and so on You use modes which can be used for extended periods.

The engine load/speed profiles they run on the dyno closely match race/qualy laps. They will run all the different modes on the dyno for as long as they expect to run them in the real world.

They can also simulate track bumps but it looks very hard to simulate g-forces or too expensive

[Talisman]

Tahts good if it is true. I think it is better 5 pu for all season than 3

Actually I think Honda need to hit the reliability targets and finish the season with three units per car. The rules on the number of PU units per season is not going to be relaxed so Honda have to be able to prove they can hit at least one of the two most important parameters for the PU, reliability and power. Having a powerful unit that can match the others but struggles to complete more than a race weekend or two proves nothing whatsoever and is pretty easily achievable.

I hope they set themselves strict reliability targets and develop the power output from thereon.

[etusch]

Maybe a bit more power is possible but it is not easy to make more powerful if reliability does not matter. If it were, they were not save fuel during race.

[maguetox]

I think Honda will present a completely new engine in Spain. Then, the first engine should last only 4 GP.
Another for Silverstone
Other Monza / Singapure
Other USA

I really don´t care if they even use and additional extra PU if they are improving the power output, efficiency and reliability. To me right now is more important to be fighting in the top end of the mid field on pure merit than on the lower part with a reliable but doggy PU.

[HPD]

While it will use its fourth different power unit this season at the start of its Honda works partnership, Key insists having a three-year deal with the Japanese manufacturer will provide a much better chance of finishing fifth in the constructors' standings in future.

"That's not to say we wouldn't want to chase [P5] this year, of course; we want to have the best success we can with our partners at Honda and they're very keen for that success as well," Key told RACER. "So we'll be pushing very hard this year, but I do think it gives us – both us and Honda – a really good period of stability. That's so important.

"Particularly if you've got a wee bit of catching up to do, it's so important to have stability. You're able to long-term plan, you can prioritize a little bit easier as well. I think we have to remember that STR is quite unique in all this business in many ways because we've had three different power units in three years!

"Nobody else is doing any of that stuff, and often they've been very late agreements as well, so that's extremely disruptive. It's very expensive and it's really disruptive. You can't long-term plan under those conditions. There were reasons for that – perfectly valid reasons why that happened – but it is not an instability that our competitors have suffered.

"Now we have the opportunity of that stability. We can long-term plan; we do know what engine we're going to have in 2019 and 2020, so we can discuss early conversations with Honda – which we've already done about our directions for 2019, for example – and we can be much earlier with a much more optimum solution with how we're laying the car out and so on. So for us it makes a massive difference."
http://www.racer.com/f1/item/147307-hon ... toro-rosso

[adrianjordan]

Having a powerful unit that can match the others but struggles to complete more than a race weekend or two proves nothing whatsoever and is pretty easily achievable.

They didn't manage even that so far...

[etusch]

Wazari san says that the PU runs more than 2500 km without any issues. So we consider about power

[HPD]

Wazari san says that the PU runs more than 2500 km without any issues. So we consider about power

Yes, I just read it. That is good news.

A tour of the factory:
[media]https://twitter.com/ToroRosso/status/961888670365003776[/media]

[ESPImperium]

I think Honda will present a completely new engine in Spain. Then, the first engine should last only 4 GP.
Another for Silverstone
Other Monza / Singapure
Other USA

My suggestions:

PU #1: AUS, BAH, CHI, AZB, ESP, MCO (Fridays until and including Singapore) - 6 GP
PU #2: CAN, FRA, AUS, GBR, GER, HUN, BEL, SIN (Fridays from RUS till MEX) - 8 GP
PU #3: ITA, RUS, JPN, USA, MEX, BRA, ABD (Fridays in Brazil & ABD) - 7 GP

Getting the milage on each component will be key, as drivers average anywhere between 700Km and 850Km over a race weekend, Monaco can be smaller, but the fact they want out on the track to key in to it, gives their average there about 700km. The average top end estimate will see drivers drive 17,850km this year, however i think a safe estimate is 14,600km, a distance of 695km per weekend. The biggest stress this year will be in the lifing and deployment department of all teams. In respect to gearboxes as well, it will be a massive drain, especially if the engines are the typical 12-17% more powerful this year to the end of last. There will be failures, lady luck will play a massive part this year, as if a team is seeing a component failing, they may need to take a tactical penalty toward the end of the season, and even dare i say manage the components in such a way that may seem to be different.

The Halo may be the top line change for the car, but i think the engine component battles will be one that will be the ultimate battle this year.

[godlameroso]

I still don't think anyone will be free of penalties, everyone will suffer at least 1.