Indy car windscreen

[TAG]

Indy's solution should humble the F1 enough to made the redo the damned thing for 2019 or scrap it all together.

[J.A.W.]

...Optics are another issue. The aircraft screen doesn't give perfect optical performance but it doesn't need to. The driver in the car is seeing very fast moving scenery that crosses his vision on both sides and across the front. He needs good vision to place the car. The pilot, although able to travel many times faster than the car, isn't exposed to the same movement of objects in his field of view. Minor distortion, whilst undesirable, can be accepted because the pilot doesn't need to place his plane to the inch in the way the driver does. Even landing on an aircraft carrier is accurate only within several feet and, once close to the fantail, there is no need to see perfect detail anyway as you can't do anything about it.

Clever shaping of the screen could deal with some of the distortion but only so long as the eyes remain in the same place. Add in head movement and vibration and it becomes very difficult.

No..

The clear, distortion-free pilot view in a combat aircraft is still very important, since not only is accurate visual perception - in all 4 dimensions - a must, but nothwithstanding radar intercept guidance, rules of engagement require
a visual confirmation in virtually all circumstances, prior to use of weapons..

None of your apparent objections stand as preventing the adoption of a properly functional aero-screen in Indy Car, or F1..

[Just_a_fan]

No..

The clear, distortion-free pilot view in a combat aircraft is still very important, since not only is accurate visual perception

Having looked through several aircraft canopies (civilian and military) over the years, I can tell you they are not perfectly distortion free.

- in all 4 dimensions -

4 dimensions???

None of your apparent objections stand as preventing the adoption of a properly functional aero-screen in Indy Car, or F1..

The key phrase there is "properly functional". Optical and structural issues have to be dealt with to make them functional in a safe and effective manner. We know optics are a problem because Vettel told us it was. We know there is a structural issue because the FIA tests found the screen didn't work properly. Sort those issues out and bring the solution to the table and the screen can then be considered.

[Just_a_fan]

Indy's solution should humble the F1 enough to made the redo the damned thing for 2019 or scrap it all together.

Has the Indy screen been shown to keep a flying wheel away from the driver's head? It looks thin and incapable of withstanding such an impact.

[jjn9128]

Indy's solution should humble the F1 enough to made the redo the damned thing for 2019 or scrap it all together.

Has the Indy screen been shown to keep a flying wheel away from the driver's head? It looks thin and incapable of withstanding such an impact.

Until/unless Indycar release some footage/data of their testing we don't know that for sure. What I am sure of from the geometry is that the driver's head is more exposed to debris coming from an angle (can't find the picture of the driver in the simulator with it). The FIA wanted the halo to protect from intrusion up to 15degrees from the longitudinal axis, which is why it remains higher further around the sides to the top rather than the front of the cockpit surround. The kinetic energy aerospace polycarbonate has to withstand for bird strike (having looked into it 4lb at 350knots ~630km/hr) and a for a racing wheel (11kg at 240km/hr) is similar 25-30kJ so I can't imagine the material will have any issue withstanding the impact - as was the case with the proper aerospace canopy in the FIA tests. Not sure what their 1/2 canopy was made of.

It seems the FIA and Indycar want different things from their screens, and I think the FIAs preferred solution is a merging of the Red Bull aeroscreen and halo - i.e. the halo with a screen. But time ran out to implement that solution - there were further issues they hadn't resolved by their deadline.

I remain unconvinced a screen with an open roof will not have issues of fogging, dirt accumulation (inside and out), issues with rain not experienced with a helmet - or in LMP with wipers, undesirable reflections and glaring in sunlight... etc

For me no other solution has been as well thought out and documented as the halo, so the halo wins atm.

[J.A.W.]

Any Western fighter aircraft of the past 75 years - with a pilot's view showing an optical distortion level such as Ferrari tested,
would quite plainly, never pass service-acceptance trials..

& yes, 4 dimensions in fighter aircraft, roll, pitch, yaw, & vector-velocity ('space-time').

[Santozini]

Dixon cautiously positive after first IndyCar aeroscreen run:
https://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news ... n-1003353/

I like it!

[djos]

Dixon cautiously positive after first IndyCar aeroscreen run:
https://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news ... n-1003353/

I like it!

It's noticeably a huge amount thicker than the windscreen the FiA tested. Looks great tho!

[Just_a_fan]

Dixon did say they need to try it on a road course to see if/how looking in to real corners was affected. The ovals don't have the direction change and associated need to look laterally through the arc of the screen.

It certainly looks good so far.

I wonder what it'll be like in the rain. Also, in the rain under artificial lights. Something the Indy guys don't need to worry about on ovals, of course.

[djos]

Dixon did say they need to try it on a road course to see if/how looking in to real corners was affected. The ovals don't have the direction change and associated need to look laterally through the arc of the screen.

It certainly looks good so far.

I wonder what it'll be like in the rain. Also, in the rain under artificial lights. Something the Indy guys don't need to worry about on ovals, of course.

It's never been an issue for SportsCars so I doubt it'd be an issue for the Indycar's fitted with the screen - just coat it in RainX or something similar.

[jjn9128]

Lets not get too far ahead here. He did four short stints on an oval, alone, and noted he could get used to the visual effect of the screen - not that there were no issues/deformation. I question how this will manifest when drafting/racing in a group of cars. He's already questioned whether it will be an issue for road courses where the apexes are shorter.

Running alone there's no rubber and oil being shed from a car ahead either. I know they can put tear off's on - but these can only be removed at pitstops - i.e. 1-4 times per race, whereas a driver will use at least 10 on their helmet.

It's never been an issue for SportsCars so I doubt it'd be an issue for the Indycar's fitted with the screen - just coat it in RainX or something similar.

This screen is considerably thicker with a much tighter curvature than in any other circuit racing series!! Sports car's also have wipers!?!

[FW17]

Any Western fighter aircraft of the past 75 years - with a pilot's view showing an optical distortion level such as Ferrari tested,
would quite plainly, never pass service-acceptance trials..

& yes, 4 dimensions in fighter aircraft, roll, pitch, yaw, & vector-velocity ('space-time').

Fighters use a HUD for targeting, and HUD has software correction for the distortion.

[Manoah2u]

So nice to see it in it's fullest now.

the addition of more visual references show the screen indeed is pretty thick



and looking at the picture above, you already start seeing deformation, even though the angle doesn't help much though.

looking at the picture below, it does look pretty good though, that must be said.



but at the same time, i repeat; apart from potentially 'redirecting' an object hitting the screen, there is still a vast amount of area in which a wheel could hit the driver.

also, something rather important imho - what if the car is upside down, and the driver needs to crawl out?
the area to crawl out seems rather small imho. offcourse that is why the windscreen is 'lowered' on the sides, but even then i wonder.

[mclaren111]

1000% better than the the Halo.

Why is it that Indycar does so many things better than the FIA ??

Just look at the difference

Chassis can also be adapted to better incorporate it

[Jolle]

1000% better than the the Halo.

Why is it that Indycar does so many things better than the FIA ??

Just look at the difference

https://imgr3.auto-motor-und-sport.de/I ... 146081.jpg

One is developed over years with crash tests and science, data from previous crashes and all those kinds of things and the other one we don’t know anything about apart from a single road test and a few pictures.

And Indy doing so many things better? It became a spec series... if F1 would go that way we could close this forum to start with.