Indy car windscreen

[AJI]

Has anyone seen tests of drivers exciting an inverted Halo equipped car? I can't imagine it's easy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYkGjUHstKY#t=20m15s

Thanks. I didn't make it that far into the video before wanting to throw my phone at the wall on the first viewing.
Are there any real tests? You know, simulating real world conditions where the car is actually completely inverted rather than gingerly placed almost upside down at a convenient angle for the driver to get out?

[roon]

Are there any real tests? You know, simulating real world conditions where the car is actually completely inverted rather than gingerly placed almost upside down at a convenient angle for the driver to get out?

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13434 ... etty-scary

"Obviously you don't want to build a complete chassis, but we built various test pieces where we had dummy halos, parts of halos, full halos, and testing how the interfaces would behave.

"We found some issues but we planned early enough so we could react to those issues and catch the main chassis, which we did.

"It was close. I am not saying we breezed through it, and there were quite a few heart-stopping moments when doing the static tests that comes in from an oblique angle - where it takes the weight of a London Bus.

"When you see that test going on it is pretty scary with the amount of load going in there."

[AJI]

Thanks roon.

I guess my point is; there are issues with egress due to the Halo, so a fully enclosed cockpit using a fighter jet style canopy isn't that crazy. They just need to be more prepared to flip inverted cars... No?

[djos]

Thanks roon.

I guess my point is; there are issues with egress due to the Halo, so a fully enclosed cockpit using a fighter jet style canopy isn't that crazy. They just need to be more prepared to flip inverted cars... No?

And that's now FiA policy so the problem no longer exists.

[NathanOlder]

Fighter jets don't have doors, the canopy just lifts up. The same would apply to F1 cars.

and when the car is upside down the canopy just lif....... oh crap.

FIA procedure is to upright flipped cars before driver exit or extraction.

Drivers aways climb out before the car is upright. So to me that says the drivers dont want to hang around in the car and wait. Then again, since when does it matter what the drivers thing. It seems hardly any of them want the Halo.

[NathanOlder]

Has anyone seen tests of drivers exciting an inverted Halo equipped car? I can't imagine it's easy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYkGjUHstKY#t=20m15s

Thanks. I didn't make it that far into the video before wanting to throw my phone at the wall on the first viewing.
Are there any real tests? You know, simulating real world conditions where the car is actually completely inverted rather than gingerly placed almost upside down at a convenient angle for the driver to get out?

Would the car sit at that angle when you add wheels and wings in a mess, plus the weight of the PU and gearbox may make the car sit on the roll hoop and halo, rather than the halo and front bulk head like the video.
That test is no way good enough to prove anything, Thats like 3 blokes in a shed saying, look its fine.

[djos]

and when the car is upside down the canopy just lif....... oh crap.

FIA procedure is to upright flipped cars before driver exit or extraction.

Drivers aways climb out before the car is upright. So to me that says the drivers dont want to hang around in the car and wait. Then again, since when does it matter what the drivers thing. It seems hardly any of them want the Halo.

the drivers seem to find it hard getting out of the car with a halo when it's upright, upside down is going to be much more difficult.

[NathanOlder]

FIA procedure is to upright flipped cars before driver exit or extraction.

Drivers aways climb out before the car is upright. So to me that says the drivers dont want to hang around in the car and wait. Then again, since when does it matter what the drivers thing. It seems hardly any of them want the Halo.

the drivers seem to find it hard getting out of the car with a halo when it's upright, upside down is going to be much more difficult.

Certainly! yet some people say it will make it easier to get out. Also in the video they explain about having to cut the halo if they needed to, and they say it will take 2 seconds to cut the front Pillar, 2 seconds to cut the Hoop rear right, and 5 seconds to cut the hoop rear left! why would it take two and a half times longer to cut the left side of the hoop as apposed to the right side ? Either they dont know what they are talking about, or they make mistakes in their presentation which shows how bodged this job is.

[djos]

Drivers aways climb out before the car is upright. So to me that says the drivers dont want to hang around in the car and wait. Then again, since when does it matter what the drivers thing. It seems hardly any of them want the Halo.

the drivers seem to find it hard getting out of the car with a halo when it's upright, upside down is going to be much more difficult.

Certainly! yet some people say it will make it easier to get out. Also in the video they explain about having to cut the halo if they needed to, and they say it will take 2 seconds to cut the front Pillar, 2 seconds to cut the Hoop rear right, and 5 seconds to cut the hoop rear left! why would it take two and a half times longer to cut the left side of the hoop as apposed to the right side ? Either they dont know what they are talking about, or they make mistakes in their presentation which shows how bodged this job is.

Agreed, it doesn't add up imo either.

[roon]

Drivers aways climb out before the car is upright. So to me that says the drivers dont want to hang around in the car and wait. Then again, since when does it matter what the drivers thing. It seems hardly any of them want the Halo.

Probably safer to stay in the car. If the car is hit again whilst flipped, you'll want to be strapped into the safety cell, not halfway out of it with the seat belt undone, or standing next to it. If the car is resting upon less-robust structures like the RW endplates or sidepod turning vanes, or teetering, the car could settle during driver egress, creating an pinching/crushing/entrapment situation.

Fire is less of a concern these days (in terms of remaining in-vehicle) due to fuel bladders and installation, and in-cockpit fire suppression.

[NathanOlder]

True, but its safer stood behind a barrier than still sat in the car waiting.
To be fair, if you have had time to get out the car, the chances are the race would have already been stopped if a car is upside down on or near the track. So its not likely a car will hit a wrecked car long enough after the the first crash that the first driver could be getting out of the car.
As for the fire thing, your quite right, a fire is unlikely, but it can happen. Just like getting hit on the head by a stray wheel, unlikely but can happen.

[roon]

... unlikely but can happen.

You're quite selective about which events you apply this criteria to.

[strad]

As one who has seen people that should have walked away die, and others the should surely have been killed walk away,
I'm in the camp that says anything can happen.

[J.A.W.]

Whaaa..?

No way, there are probalistics.. which def' - 'out-rank' those putatively 'random' occurrences - likelihood-wise..

[Jolle]

F1 cars are designed with, just like any accident, the thought that you stay put after a big crash.

The protocol is that after a big shunt, the car will be turned upright (when it's not) and the driver is pulled out with his chair (to not destabilise his back). If drivers are seriously injured they are stabalized inside the car before they are moved or pulled out.

Fire because of an accident haven't happend in F1 since Bergers crash in the late eighties, and that was because the crash was so brutal that he was knocked out. The fire-protection and fast acting marshals, although it looked scary, never was a life threatening risk. All other fires were because of broken lines, faulty stuff on the car, etc.

If we would take Alonso's crash in 2015 as example, where he broke some ribs and had a collapsed lung, he was lucky that he didn't dislocated something in his back. He should of stayed in the car and be extracted by the medical crew.