2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

[Singabule]

This may not be a million miles from the truth. I can certainly see Honda buying STR, but also supplying RB...
To paraphrase Wasarisan's nephew; they get dumped by the old supermodel, date the cute girl next door for a year, marry that cute girl the next year and also take on a young supermodel mistress.

Why would they buy STR, makes no sense at all.

If RB offer them with 50% price off, 300 mio to 150, why not? Well honda is honda. They dont care if their chasis is not winning a race, as long as the winner has 'powered by honda' On the back

[AJI]

Why would they buy STR, makes no sense at all.

They've already implied that they are either pulling out of F1 or becoming a full works outfit. It's hard to tell right now, but the initial signs are that they may have finally cracked the code on the PU, so staying in F1 is more likely than pulling out. STR is the logical choice for a purchase, probably with Red Bull sponsorship.

[godlameroso]

I think the better position is to just have a works partnership with RBT. I think economically it works out best for both parties. Honda will just supply engines to RB and TR from 2019. A lot will depend on what happens in 2018 though. There is a chance that the STR 13 ends up being seriously fast, if that's the case then it makes Honda very attractive to Red Bull, if that were the case then they wouldn't sell TR to Honda so easily. If Honda becomes it's own works team and just supplies Red Bull it puts Red Bull in a less advantageous position as a customer. Having Honda as your works partner is still quite valuable(more so if they keep showing improvements), and Red Bull are a known quantity as far as the chassis is concerned. If the Honda engine is good, working with Red Bull ensures that they'll have the chassis and drivers to compete for a title.

Honda can also benefit massively from what it learns from working with Red Bull regarding it's fabrication methods, and can apply this knowledge to it's own cars, likewise Red Bull technology can learn a lot about engine architecture. Both parties stand to benefit tremendously in this arena, and things could play out in their favor. We'll see, you never know what the others are doing after all, we haven't seen anyone do anything yet.

[Redragon]

Why would they buy STR, makes no sense at all.

They've already implied that they are either pulling out of F1 or becoming a full works outfit. It's hard to tell right now, but the initial signs are that they may have finally cracked the code on the PU, so staying in F1 is more likely than pulling out. STR is the logical choice for a purchase, probably with Red Bull sponsorship.

They did in the past and finished Honda out of F1. I don't think they will buy Toro Rosso. or at least in near future.

1. Because Redbull will not sponsor Honda team it would go against their main team RB as a trademark
2. You have already two teams working well economically and independently so why to buy one of them and restart a business that already is working. Teams are sold when are too small or economically not worth it. Toro Rosso has always been design to bring money to the main team via their young drivers academy. Young drivers bring sponsors from their original home countries mainly and it works because the prospects of fininishing on the main team.
3. At the moment Honda image have been damage by their past 3 years so buying the team would be to early to attract investment and sponsors to their own team and they will have to invest huge amounts that can be use now on developing the engine
4. You can have two team working for the same interest, make one of them successful by using one as test, driver academy and engine development.

[ivanlesk]

a good thing about torro rosso, is that they listening to honda suggestions. and did what they asked. whereas previously honda were told here are the design limits of our chassis we want you to build an engine. which is pathetic. honda should have taken control but they didnt and did not pay off as all the blame was directed at them. now with torro rosso, there bit more common ground work and is showing good as a result

Stop twisting facts.( Or stop trolling). For 2018 both TR and McLaren HAD to listen EM because there was no time to implement any ideas they might have.
You can't possibly know (yet) if there is more common ground with Honda-TR or Honda-McLaren.
When point out someone out just because you hate (or whatever reason) without proper evidence or really understanding situation isn't that pathetic?

[techman]

Stop twisting facts.( Or stop trolling). For 2018 both TR and McLaren HAD to listen EM because there was no time to implement any ideas they might have.
You can't possibly know (yet) if there is more common ground with Honda-TR or Honda-McLaren.
When point out someone out just because you hate (or whatever reason) without proper evidence or really understanding situation isn't that pathetic?

its no secret that honda boss did say that mclaren are not keen on taking honda suggesstions and not keen on change. wazari on many occassions has said honda had to design an engine to mclaren size zero ridicoulous design concepts. and normally its the other way round. the chassis developer designs the chasssis around the engine. with TR - honda have said they are acting more like a partnership meaning TR are listening to their advice first and design the chassis around the engine. and looking at the result it show very evidently. with large air intakes like other teams except mclaren which still gone for size zero tiny intakes. no wonder they are getting heating issues in testing. who know in hot weather what problems might arise for them.

[Talisman]

This may not be a million miles from the truth. I can certainly see Honda buying STR, but also supplying RB...
To paraphrase Wasarisan's nephew; they get dumped by the old supermodel, date the cute girl next door for a year, marry that cute girl the next year and also take on a young supermodel mistress.

Why would they buy STR, makes no sense at all.

If RB offer them with 50% price off, 300 mio to 150, why not?

Why not? Because Honda has had plenty of experience buying up midfield teams and trying to build them up into winners. They’ve wasted billions doing so with little to show for it in the past. This option is simply off the table, especially a team that is split over two countries, three if japan is included.

They won’t buy a team, that commits them financially and Honda have no intention of falling into that trap. Much better to be a supplier where they can leave if and when they want without a large financial penalty.

Honda are working to a (small) budget. This will not change. Teams won’t be bought. STR is a stepping stone to greater things, not the end in itself.

As others have said a supply deal for RBR is perfect, a team that is already competitive and doesn’t need financial support unlike both McLaren and STR. There are only two other teams that are as attractive, Ferrari and Mercedes. Understandably those two are unattainable.

[ivanlesk]

Stop twisting facts.( Or stop trolling). For 2018 both TR and McLaren HAD to listen EM because there was no time to implement any ideas they might have.
You can't possibly know (yet) if there is more common ground with Honda-TR or Honda-McLaren.
When point out someone out just because you hate (or whatever reason) without proper evidence or really understanding situation isn't that pathetic?

its no secret that honda boss did say that mclaren are not keen on taking honda suggesstions and not keen on change. wazari on many occassions has said honda had to design an engine to mclaren size zero ridicoulous design concepts. and normally its the other way round. the chassis developer designs the chasssis around the engine. with TR - honda have said they are acting more like a partnership meaning TR are listening to their advice first and design the chassis around the engine. and looking at the result it show very evidently. with large air intakes like other teams except mclaren which still gone for size zero tiny intakes. no wonder they are getting heating issues in testing. who know in hot weather what problems might arise for them.

TR chassis was NOT designed around Honda engine!!!!
Chasis was revoked to FIT Honda engine for 2018. They couldn't have any input on engine because simply there was no time.

McLaren requested something. Honda comited to that and they couldn't deliver. They could just se no. That's even more on them.

What results would that be?

[hasika]

http://members.f1-life.net/report/64227/

The journalist has learned that 950hp is a target number for the Renault Power Unit,and its a number they want to have when they are using qualifying mode.Also,they already plan to take penalty to use 4 ICE this season to have the power.

A bit off topic,but i think its not a bad news for Honda if its ture.

[techman]

TR chassis was NOT designed around Honda engine!!!!

IT IS here is a link honda were the onces requesting changes to the chassis to accomodate the engine. read the article fully and you will see it was not the case with mclaren. mclaren want everything to be done their way. if you want i can put that link also .
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... en-983728/

“We’ve been the ones making the majority of requests [of Toro Rosso] so far,” said Honda F1 project leader Yusuke Hasegawa in an interview on the Japanese manufacturer’s official website.

“But it’s fair to say this will be a more equal partnership than it was with McLaren in terms of leadership. And that’s not just because of the size of the team.

[carisi2k]

ivanlesk you are missing the point people are trying to make. They are not saying the TR chassis was designed for the Honda. What they are saying is that the TR chassis is of a design that Honda aren't hamstrung by limitations (mainly size and cooling) as they were with the Mclaren size zero philosophy chassis. Things like being able to use a larger turbo means more power and energy recovery from the mgu-h.

If by the end of may the TR Honda has convinced Red Bull to change to Honda in 2019 then STR will get even more development bits in preparation for the RB15 and STR14.

[techman]

ivanlesk you are missing the point people are trying to make. They are not saying the TR chassis was designed for the Honda. What they are saying is that the TR chassis is of a design that Honda aren't hamstrung by limitations (mainly size and cooling) as they were with the Mclaren size zero philosophy chassis. Things like being able to use a larger turbo means more power and energy recovery from the mgu-h.

If by the end of may the TR Honda has convinced Red Bull to change to Honda in 2019 then STR will get even more development bits in preparation for the RB15 and STR14.

SPOT ON

[etusch]

http://members.f1-life.net/report/64227/

The journalist has learned that 950hp is a target number for the Renault Power Unit,and its a number they want to have when they are using qualifying mode.Also,they already plan to take penalty to use 4 ICE this season to have the power.

A bit off topic,but i think its not a bad news for Honda if its ture.

Honda and Renault was similar condition last season ( of course renault was better on powerside) with new architecture. Now it is almost same again. Both concentrated reliability first. Honda also has QM. Sure all will be tested at coming test. If everything goes as scheduled I think we can see, who is doing better when they both installed second Pu to the chassis.

[McMika98]

Both TR and Mclaren are running non-optimised solutions as the change was too late and is a major overhaul. Expect inseason developments. James key said they are already exploring ideas for 2019.

I would very interested to know more about the rear suspension which is very different to last years. This was a major focus for the guys at TR.

[HPD]

I would very interested to know more about the rear suspension which is very different to last years. This was a major focus for the guys at TR.

It is true..
A couple of months ago, TR said they had to hire "new" people to develop the back of the car. (Obviously, I think RB intervened here, but we'll never know).

Tanabe: "it's happening!"