F1 Driver Fitness

[NathanOlder]

I'd put football in the same bracket as combat sports, as they are sports where you need sudden bursts of energy and have a little time to recover and go again. I'd put motorsport in the same bracket as cycling and long distance running where you need a continuous effort without a break .

I just had a look at the footballers stats on distance travelled during a match. 11.97km is the highest average distance. Over 95mins thats an average speed of 7.5kmh which is slower than an average jogging pace. Looking at it that way it looks like the footballer either has a long slow jog or bursts of flat out with a good bit of time to rest between bursts.

[3jawchuck]

Wouldn't footballers be more inclined to bursts of speed and effort followed by "rest" whereas F1 drivers are more like marathon runners, a steady level of effort over a long period of time.

I'd think they're not really comparable.

This is a debate that could have an objective point of view. I'm sure someone with a sports science background or at least the will to troll through papers of the subject can give a reasonably objective argument. Anyone?

[Jolle]

Wouldn't footballers be more inclined to bursts of speed and effort followed by "rest" whereas F1 drivers are more like marathon runners, a steady level of effort over a long period of time.

I'd think they're not really comparable.

This is a debate that could have an objective point of view. I'm sure someone with a sports science background or at least the will to troll through papers of the subject can give a reasonably objective argument. Anyone?

F1 is more like 1 1/2 hours of weightlifting while walking on a tightrope.

[Ennis]

Im not so sure, I've never done any fighting so cant comment on that, but I played football (proper football) from when I was a child right up to when i was about 30. Played as a midfielder so did plenty of leg work, but I was always fine because it was rare that you didnt get some sort of rest ever couple of minutes (ball out of play, substitutions ect)
I have also done plenty of Karting at Buckmore Park and when doing races over 30mins in length and having someone on your tail for lap after lap meaning you dont get a rest, and its so mentally draining too as you must not lose concentration for even half a second, I'd say you need to be fitter to do karting than football.

Obviously this is at a very low level so it cant really be compared to professional stuff, but I see in football the ball is out of play a hell of a lot, and and in F1 there is no room for error or a rest. So i'm not so sure. all my opinion of course.

I'd say this then comes down to what 'fitness' really means. F1 drivers need to have a maniacal focus for periods of time which footballers will never need to come near to. Amateur example, but I remember playing duration races in Gran Turismo and going in to an almost trance-like state (which is when I also hit my best laptimes). I'd hit the end and wonder where I'd been for the last hour. Football is much more on and off mentally than that.

The ball is out of play for around 30 mins in a 90 minute game. This isn't always a rest though, especially at the high level where there's movement happening around the ball to try and open up space to receive the ball.

This is all a completely subjective debate, of course. My definition of fitness is how long can your body sustain a certain physical output for.. which is impossible to measure, when you consider a marathon runner goes at a steady state, fighters have a steady state with a lot of explosion in between, etc. I don't consider footballers to be the peak or anywhere near it either btw - my opinion is this is going to sit with cyclists, marathon runners/iron-man type competitors, or some sort of combat sport.

The experience you describe is called "flow" and it's the primary reason for happiness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)

F1 is a very demanding sport because it aks a lot from your mind, staying focussed for 1.30 hours and the physical strain on the body, mostly static. Plus there is no place to hide or rest...

I think most pro-athletes who try to maximise their sport are top-fit. There is always that little bit more they could do to be better, faster, etc etc.

Thanks, interesting reading! The only other time I've experienced this state was karting for 8hrs - short breaks in between - in the Bulgarian heat (I'm Scottish, going from 10 celcius to a humid 42 celcius was fun..), which I consider the best day of my life to date.

My wife isn't happy as its not our wedding day, and my daughter isn't happy because it's not the day she was born. But hey, who can beat karting for 8hrs?

[Jolle]

I'd say this then comes down to what 'fitness' really means. F1 drivers need to have a maniacal focus for periods of time which footballers will never need to come near to. Amateur example, but I remember playing duration races in Gran Turismo and going in to an almost trance-like state (which is when I also hit my best laptimes). I'd hit the end and wonder where I'd been for the last hour. Football is much more on and off mentally than that.

The ball is out of play for around 30 mins in a 90 minute game. This isn't always a rest though, especially at the high level where there's movement happening around the ball to try and open up space to receive the ball.

This is all a completely subjective debate, of course. My definition of fitness is how long can your body sustain a certain physical output for.. which is impossible to measure, when you consider a marathon runner goes at a steady state, fighters have a steady state with a lot of explosion in between, etc. I don't consider footballers to be the peak or anywhere near it either btw - my opinion is this is going to sit with cyclists, marathon runners/iron-man type competitors, or some sort of combat sport.

The experience you describe is called "flow" and it's the primary reason for happiness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)

F1 is a very demanding sport because it aks a lot from your mind, staying focussed for 1.30 hours and the physical strain on the body, mostly static. Plus there is no place to hide or rest...

I think most pro-athletes who try to maximise their sport are top-fit. There is always that little bit more they could do to be better, faster, etc etc.

Thanks, interesting reading! The only other time I've experienced this state was karting for 8hrs - short breaks in between - in the Bulgarian heat (I'm Scottish, going from 10 celcius to a humid 42 celcius was fun..), which I consider the best day of my life to date.

My wife isn't happy as its not our wedding day, and my daughter isn't happy because it's not the day she was born. But hey, who can beat karting for 8hrs?

Ever since I learned about flow and how it works, I'm actively searching for it in everything I do, work, projects, hobbies, etc. Being a much happier person ever since.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_u-Eh3h7Mo

[Ennis]

Wouldn't footballers be more inclined to bursts of speed and effort followed by "rest" whereas F1 drivers are more like marathon runners, a steady level of effort over a long period of time.

I'd think they're not really comparable.

This is a debate that could have an objective point of view. I'm sure someone with a sports science background or at least the will to troll through papers of the subject can give a reasonably objective argument. Anyone?

I'm no PhD, but this & nutrition are huge personal interests of mine. I really don't see a way to objectively measure this, as even the definition of 'fitness' is an open thing.

There have been tests in the past, by no way conclusive because its not easy to get the elite-level athletes from each field to provide a large enough sample size. And even the testing criteria is hugely subjective, as how do we define fitness? Endurance, power & strength? What about flexibility? Do we need to separate raw strength vs strength endurance? How do we account for the type of strength required of a wrestler, which is very specific and wouldn't show up on a lot of 'tests' outside of actually wrestling? Do we want to include 'mental', and if so are we just measuring focus, or focus under stress, or reaction times under stress? For endurance are going to do constant state, or interval based? How much weighting to each?

You'd then need a large sample size from every major sport, and put them through a series of tests to determine the winner. And even this might be skewed by outliers which aren't specific to their actual sport (ie Jenson Button might not need that level of fitness or anywhere near it, but just enjoys the personal challenge of iron-man competition, Cristiano Ronaldo's upper body strength could be skewed by vanity rather than an actual footballing requirement/need...).

I think what we'll find is everyone is 'fit' for their sport, but would struggle in other sports outside of obvious crossovers. Most sports outside of combat would struggle with the neck strength required for F1, F1 drivers would struggle for the agility and balance at high running speeds and would lack powerful bursts of strength, so on and so forth..

[strad]

: they don't know how to handle falls, which, believe me, is one of the most important things in a match.

Do you mean real falls or dives?
Watched a special a couple of weeks ago where the players ran past those 4 ft tall plastic traffic posts and what they were practicing was barely brushing against the posts and then falling down. Pure play acting.
I'd have to go back and re-read Neweys book but the amount if pressure required to achieve 5 Gs braking is off the charts. In my opinion far more thigh strength than any footballer I've seen.
But frankly this is yet another stupid argument.

[Earnard Beccelstone]

About six or seven years ago, I got to talk to an exercise physiologist who has consulted for two different F1 teams before moving back into triathlon coaching (which I was competing in as an amateur at the time).

His view was that some F1 drivers at the time - he named Button, Hamilton and Webber - were at the extreme edge of human fitness levels, and probably comparable in overall fitness to Olympic sprint distance triathletes. This wasn't necessarily because of any particular strength or speed, but because of their ability to maintain elevated heart rates for 80 to 120 minutes without any degradation in performance.

Interestingly, he noted that Webber had changed his training strategy since he'd been in F1. He claimed that Webber used to overdo it - too much extended cardio and long weights sessions - when he'd first entered F1 and that after 2008 or 2009, he'd switched to a mix of endurance and short interval high intensity sessions to lower his body fat percentage to about 4-6% (which is SCARY low). Maybe the broken leg had something to do with it?

[marmer]

I don't know if F1 drivers are fitter per say than some top footballers (heavy smokers like Rooney and Wilshire definitely), but the different requirements make it hard to compare. As a squash fan I'd say squash players are some of the fittest athletes on the planet - but that's twitch muscle response for high intensity bursts over 1-1.5hrs - they had them wearing heart rate monitors at the last tournament and in rallies they were at 180/190bpm, then in the 30sec rest between points it would drop to 120/130bpm. Put them in a marathon though and they'd be useless. Cycling tour sprinters are also really impressive - because they have to hang in over 100-200km before even getting to the sprint.

Back to the topic I think where F1 drivers definitely have the edge is decision making and cognition under duress. This was an interesting, if over produced, video comparing Button to the Brownlee's (triathletes) - what is interesting is how Button is able to hold his own in the swimming (though his technique is less efficient) and at low intensity cycling - but at higher intensity his core temps rocket.

To be fair to button the brownlees are much younger than him so the fact that he can keep up in swimming and cycling probably means if F1 hadn't worked out he would have been a told level athlete in his prime

[jjn9128]

To be fair to button the brownlees are much younger than him so the fact that he can keep up in swimming and cycling probably means if F1 hadn't worked out he would have been a told level athlete in his prime

Also Alistair did the swim and Jonathan did the cycling (or at least that's what they reported at the end) so JB did more work than the young whipper-snappers

[Just_a_fan]

Football players have a highly unbalanced and specialized fitness. Very lean upper torso (except in premier league) and super strong core and legs. Also, drivers lack the proprioception needed to avoid serious injury: they don't know how to handle falls, which, believe me, is one of the most important things in a match.

Playing really well is relatively easy in football, what really stands out for professional players is how incredibly strong they are. Good players tend to be so strong, so dense, you can't imagine.

Rugby players are fit all over. They need strong, fast legs and strong upper body and arms. There are breaks in play but no more than football on an individual player basis.

[Just_a_fan]

Then there are swimmers. Swimming uses the whole body and gives excellent all round fitness.

I remember when I was swimming, we had a rugby team join us for a session. Sure, they weren't a patch on us in the water but what surprised them was the amount of stuff we did out of the water too. Suffice to say the rugby players, who would run rings around me on a field, struggled with the whole hour session.

The conclusion is that each sport has its own fitness requirements that don't fully map on to other sports.

[adrianjordan]

Interestingly, he noted that Webber had changed his training strategy since he'd been in F1. He claimed that Webber used to overdo it - too much extended cardio and long weights sessions - when he'd first entered F1 and that after 2008 or 2009, he'd switched to a mix of endurance and short interval high intensity sessions to lower his body fat percentage to about 4-6% (which is SCARY low). Maybe the broken leg had something to do with it?

I think Webber also struggled with his height, so having more muscle mass (from the long weight sessions) would actually cause him more of a problem in terms of weight than say Massa who is much shorter.

[Postmoe]

: they don't know how to handle falls, which, believe me, is one of the most important things in a match.

Do you mean real falls or dives?
Watched a special a couple of weeks ago where the players ran past those 4 ft tall plastic traffic posts and what they were practicing was barely brushing against the posts and then falling down. Pure play acting.
I'd have to go back and re-read Neweys book but the amount if pressure required to achieve 5 Gs braking is off the charts. In my opinion far more thigh strength than any footballer I've seen.
But frankly this is yet another stupid argument.

What I'm saying is that some sports demand not to injure yourself easily and been able to have a very good body self-awareness. Football, when you get to play it at a certain level, has a very high demand on propioception: tackling, jumping, even fainting needs a lot of this or you'll break your knee. Handball is also similar, with much stronger body types (like dancing lumberjacks of sorts).

In terms of absolute fitness, I would say that because gloves limit greatly the amount of terminal damage fists can inflict, boxers are generally the fittest type. They have a VERY high thermodynamic output, VERY good reflexes, muscle balance and an almost perfect self-awareness. But I could be very wrong.

[awblade]

As people have been trying to define it, finess is being able to perform a certain task. Obviously these tasks are interchangable. It incorporates a few different areas balance, coordination, flexibility, agility, power, speed... Off the top of my head. So the question is dependant upon what you would want to test them doing.

I have had this discussion with friends a few times about the generalised meaning of fitness and which sport it would be, we thought rugby sevens players. Footballers/soccer are not as fit as many people would think, in my opinion that's because many of them don't take their sport seriously enough.