2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

[kptaylor]

Smart of Robert to play the political game. No use for him to show up the pay drivers and get the team's backers upset. He's already dialed in a decent set up so let the drivers get more experience. Will help him in securing a seat later on.

[TwanV]

What worries me is the amount of driver changes which are costing them a lot of time. Having a third driver (Kubica) in the car means only one thing to me: Stroll's feedback about the car is not strong enough to help development. My hopes are on Sirotkin, hopefully he will turn out to be quick enough and smart enough to help the team forward.

[marmer]

I would be worried if I was stroll if a rookie that most don't rate comes in and does a better job. If that does happen it shows how far Massa fell away towards the end of his career

[netoperek]

And you have facts to show that Kubica is really faster? Don't say "the times". Then I only would laugh out loud.

I can feel in my guts, that there is absolutely nothing that would convince You, but let me try to plant some doubt on Your convictions anyway.
Yes, lap times can be some indicators of speed. I agree, that those can be tampered with, but let me remind You, that Kubica's lack of pace and Sirotkins supposed faster pace has been concluded on test session lap times (namely, from 2 laps) as well. Estimated on predicted tire compounds difference let me add, as in Abu Dhabi test, Kubica has recorded fastest laptime of all Williams drivers. It's a pity that those predictions don't work too well with Williams, as last days has shown, where both Wiliams racing drivers failed to switch ANY of fasters tire compounds on and get a solid time from it.
For me far more convincing is Kubica's little political ploy. Clear signal, that he has managed to get to grips with a car in 2 sessions total, so if main drivers need some more time (it seems that at least 3 times more, to be specific) then let them drive.
I still have not seen any convincing evidence, that Kubica is not THE fastest driver at Williams disposal. Such conclusion should be most logical unless proven otherwise (I hope You can see how i came with such conclusion). If it was Alonso, Hamilton or Rosberg in Robert's shoes right now (all of the forementioned clearly stated that Robert is a worthy opponent for them), I would assume they are faster than 2 pay drivers without any evidence proving such assumption wrong as well, that seems pretty obvious, wouldn't You say?
I fail to comprehend why so many people are so keen to indiscriminately prefer the unlogical choice of blindly believing that unproven driver who just happened to bring sh.t tons of cash with him, to a team that desperately needed it at the moment, is a "performance based" choice, even though he failed to record a faster laptimes or give any other sort of indication of superiority, instead of a man who happened to be regarded as one of the biggest talents of his generation, with plenty of motivation and experience, who proved that he has not lost his speed not only in single seaters, but in different areas of motorsport as well (WRC2 champion in debut year for example).
That just doesn't seem right.

[sprint car76]

While you argue about who is the best driver at williams did you notice they are the slowest car at the test. They finished behind sauber. I had big hopes that paddy's first car at williams would be a good one but it's not looking good. When after 6 test days they lose their way on set up even with veteran kubica driving is not a good sign.

To top it off pairing a rookie stroll, with a rookie engineer, was another not so smart move.

[makecry]

While you argue about who is the best driver at williams did you notice they are the slowest car at the test. They finished behind sauber. I had big hopes that paddy's first car at williams would be a good one but it's not looking good. When after 6 test days they lose their way on set up even with veteran kubica driving is not a good sign.

To top it off pairing a rookie stroll, with a rookie engineer, was another not so smart move.

Kubica was out of F1 for 6 years, under current regs, Stroll has more experience than Kubica does. I know a lot of people wont like me saying that but that's the truth, not an opinion, just fact.

[Manoah2u]

Kubica was out of F1 for 6 years, under current regs, Stroll has more experience than Kubica does. I know a lot of people wont like me saying that but that's the truth, not an opinion, just fact.

Stroll is just 1 meager year in F1. how on earth can you say he has more experience
He has been a development driver the year before, doing some sim and friday / testing sessions.

Kubica has had 5 years of full F1 experience, 10 podiums, a win, and a pole.

he then had an accident in rally, recovered, has been through huge programmes to come back, has done f1 testing in both old as new renaults and with williams, also in both sim work.

if you want to compare, you would argue Kubica stepping in f1 right now at the least would be the same to stroll last year. except for the real fact that kubica already has 5 seasons of f1 behind his back, was under the magnifying glass to go to Ferrari, and outside of F1, has far more experience in far more different racing classes than Stroll, and all of that, without a daddy that throws tens of millions around to get a seat instead of earn a seat.

i see zero facts in your post. please don't say you're telling the truth as it's full opposite

[Peter1919]

Kubica was out of F1 for 6 years, under current regs, Stroll has more experience than Kubica does. I know a lot of people wont like me saying that but that's the truth, not an opinion, just fact.

Manoah2u, I think you missed the part of makecry's post I have bolded. He is entirely correct. However I would say that Kubica's experience even if it was under different regs still more than outweighs Stroll's 1 season under the current regs, especially as Stroll seems to really struggle get his car set up right last season.

[Raleigh]

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/227 ... ng-process

Makes sense, Williams has largely thrown out everything to do with aerodynamics that they have done in the last 4 years. When Paddy started changing last year's car they dropped to the back, but by the end of the season had recovered to being roughly on the pace of Force India.

[marvin78]

And you have facts to show that Kubica is really faster? Don't say "the times". Then I only would laugh out loud.

I can feel in my guts, that there is absolutely nothing that would convince You, but let me try to plant some doubt on Your convictions anyway.
Yes, lap times can be some indicators of speed. I agree, that those can be tampered with, but let me remind You, that Kubica's lack of pace and Sirotkins supposed faster pace has been concluded on test session lap times (namely, from 2 laps) as well. Estimated on predicted tire compounds difference let me add, as in Abu Dhabi test, Kubica has recorded fastest laptime of all Williams drivers. It's a pity that those predictions don't work too well with Williams, as last days has shown, where both Wiliams racing drivers failed to switch ANY of fasters tire compounds on and get a solid time from it.
For me far more convincing is Kubica's little political ploy. Clear signal, that he has managed to get to grips with a car in 2 sessions total, so if main drivers need some more time (it seems that at least 3 times more, to be specific) then let them drive.
I still have not seen any convincing evidence, that Kubica is not THE fastest driver at Williams disposal. Such conclusion should be most logical unless proven otherwise (I hope You can see how i came with such conclusion). If it was Alonso, Hamilton or Rosberg in Robert's shoes right now (all of the forementioned clearly stated that Robert is a worthy opponent for them), I would assume they are faster than 2 pay drivers without any evidence proving such assumption wrong as well, that seems pretty obvious, wouldn't You say?
I fail to comprehend why so many people are so keen to indiscriminately prefer the unlogical choice of blindly believing that unproven driver who just happened to bring sh.t tons of cash with him, to a team that desperately needed it at the moment, is a "performance based" choice, even though he failed to record a faster laptimes or give any other sort of indication of superiority, instead of a man who happened to be regarded as one of the biggest talents of his generation, with plenty of motivation and experience, who proved that he has not lost his speed not only in single seaters, but in different areas of motorsport as well (WRC2 champion in debut year for example).
That just doesn't seem right.

Calm down. I don't really have an opinion on that. That's because I do not have the data, the team has. So as of Occhams's razor I actually believe that the team makes the best decision for themselves. That by a good chance may involve things, we don't even think of so I would never make assumptions based on the few data variables we have. For fun you can do that but not for serious discussions. In reality you basically have nothing that says: Kubica is the better choice. That's my point. But on the other hand: This forum would be dead if everyone would base his opinion on real data and not only on bias.

[netoperek]

well.. sorry for heating the discussion
Regulations change every now and then. When a major regulation change is under way, would You say a rookies experience is worth the same as a veterans?
This year the shark fins and T-Wings have been banned, there are some changes with tires and Halo has been introduced. In Williams case, changes will be even more profound with Paddy starting from scratch with this year contender. You can expect Lance and Sergey struggling as it is completely new car, Lance has not exactly been known as a fastest learner and Sergey has had very little to zero F1 experience.
Kubica has been hired (I can't find the source, but I read a rumor that he is the best paid reserve driver in history), because he is well known for his development work, and because of his very rich experience with all sorts of cars.
Unfortunately it seems his skills in this department will be much, much more needed than I expected and hoped for Williams. Lets just hope it's a set of small issues that needs to be identified and corrected, not an overall approach being uneffective.
On positive side, reliability has not been bad. I'd even say it's impressive for a completely redesigned car.

[bill shoe]

Conventional wisdom from testing is that top 3 teams remain same (and will lock out all wins), but midfield now has top-tier: Haas, Renault, McLaren. This puts Williams battling Force India for 6th or lower. Could be brutal year. If 2018 actually plays out as tough as it looks, then it lends credibility to Williams strategy of sacrificing driver performance now in return for more money to build team in long run.

Oh well, all that's left to do is put on my Williams shirt, turn on the TV (oops, computer for new OTT service!), and root for the good guys!

[PhillipM]

If 2018 actually plays out as tough as it looks, then it lends credibility to Williams strategy of sacrificing driver performance now in return for more money to build team in long run.

Williams has been trying that strategy for years and all it's given them is drivers that had no input on how to push the car forwards and constant slide towards the back of the grid.

[Stalker1]

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/227 ... ng-process

Makes sense, Williams has largely thrown out everything to do with aerodynamics that they have done in the last 4 years. When Paddy started changing last year's car they dropped to the back, but by the end of the season had recovered to being roughly on the pace of Force India.

An interesting quote from Lowe: "We're doing a lot of experiments on that, the limitation in the car at the moment is corner entry instability.

Could someone give some insight into the problem?

[PlatinumZealot]

Pitch sensitivity of the aerodynamics. On braking when yhe ar pitches forward all the detailed vortices and flow structures go out of whack. In other words they have a lot of work to do on the front wing and the bargeboards!