2018 pre-season testing thread

[dans79]

There a whole lot of rationalization going on at the moment round here.

That's an understatement!

[dans79]

Is it possible that Merc were running laps that did not fall to the expected time because at a set point, where they would expect to be in control of the race, they were testing something like 'conservation mode'? The opposite of quali mode where instead of going to high stress and burning oil, they are testing a mode to make the engine last longer while giving acceptable power, and also not burning oil. A few laps with low oil use allows a few early laps with high oil use to get away and they still stay legal?

Active control on how much oil is being burned like you are suggesting wold be highly illegal, and I can't picture any team having the bal** to do that. If caught the FIA would skin them alive!

[Big Tea]

Is it possible that Merc were running laps that did not fall to the expected time because at a set point, where they would expect to be in control of the race, they were testing something like 'conservation mode'? The opposite of quali mode where instead of going to high stress and burning oil, they are testing a mode to make the engine last longer while giving acceptable power, and also not burning oil. A few laps with low oil use allows a few early laps with high oil use to get away and they still stay legal?

Active control on how much oil is being burned like you are suggesting wold be highly illegal, and I can't picture any team having the bal** to do that. If caught the FIA would skin them alive!

Depends on how they manage it. They are still allowed to burn over a ltr(?) legally as long as the do not 'deliberately' put it into the combustion. They have no control over physics and if it just happened to come about as a result of something else.... I am sure all the others would be disgusted, and do the same.

[digitalrurouni]

Have folks here seen this already? https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2018/03 ... -analysis/ apologies if a repost

[dans79]

Have folks here seen this already? https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2018/03 ... -analysis/ apologies if a repost

I was wondering when he was going to publish something about testing!

[Morteza]

Alonso had posted this on Instagram

[ollandos]

Alonso had posted this on Instagram

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DX8nyUmWkAIQWiO.jpg:large

ok 3.5 sec ...but this is not the different from last spec of mcl32 ...

[Macklaren]

Alonso had posted this on Instagram

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DX8nyUmWkAIQWiO.jpg:large

ok 3.5 sec ...but this is not the different from last spec of mcl32 ...

Yes but same applies to all the other cars

[TAG]

With that kind of progress, does that mean Alonso is sticking around to win a championship with McLaren next year?

[foxmulder_ms]

Alonso had posted this on Instagram

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DX8nyUmWkAIQWiO.jpg:large

I think they will end the season as the worst ranked Renault powered team.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

We missed you so much for the past couple of weeks! Me personally. Ferrari need "Ferra(wa)rriors" at this time to tell the world how good their car in fact is, which no one out there can do better. Seriously. @Chene_Mostert was feeling all alone and he would be doubly strengthened. ( )

There are two factors at work in this assessment of RB being ahead of Ferrari. 1) Ferrari driving to a delta to save fuel & 2) Renault running their power units turned down. Ferrari is having issues in fuel consumption. The new oil burning clampdown has hit them the hardest. This may be a big issue and Ferrari will need time to find a fix. Renault too will run the PU turned down for quite a few months till they get their own ERS. However, RB will have a great upgrade package for Australia. Ferrari I'm not so sure. Many media guys (reliable ones) are saying that Ferrari are not yet fully on top of how to run the car with that High Rake. This again would need time to find a fix. RB and Merc are known to run heavy in testing. Ferrari not so. Hence, the consensus is RB is ahead of Ferrari. I hope not but i am pretty convinced about this.

Only time will tell I suppose. No doubt merc and RB both ran heavy, but I don’t think ferrari’s “quali sims” were done with 3 laps of fuel either. I think the fuel consumption issue is the most pressing, but again they have managed better pace in a race sim despite that.

I’m all for a 3 horse race, and I hope it is. I’m only struggling to reconcile the data with what is being reported. Granted the Ferrari is getting through its fuel - it still went faster than the RB?!

this post is interesting.
lets review the main points you made.
"I think the fuel consumption issue is the most pressing" what fuel consumption issue is the million dollar question???...here are the facts: during Vettels race simulation his lack of tire wear and consistency in lap times followed by a very fast lap at the end of a stint brings one conclusion that most take as true.. Vettel was driving around to a delta. SPECULATION by the british media is that he was masking his performance because of fuel consumption issues. How they came to this conclusion we will never know. common sense says he was masking his performance... why he was masking his performance could be down to sandbagging... is that an option maybe? : )

With the exception of 2009, the general consensus on the pecking order hasn't gone wrong in years. Only the in-season development can change the standings, like that in 2012. In 2012, it was clear that the ban on EBD affected RB and struggled with their exhaust philosophy. It was only after mid-season that they were back consistently at the front, while McLaren went astray. Sandbagging can only be done mostly on low fuel runs and not on race sims. Last year, the general consensus was that, Mercedes are struggling with their car and that was indeed correct and it took more than half the season to really sort it. Once again, in-season development made the difference.

"are saying that Ferrari are not yet fully on top of how to run the car with that High Rake"
Are you aware that Ferrari ran with high rake last year and led the championship for most of the year?

You are missing the context OR ignoring it. It's about having a longer wheel base AND higher rake. Something Mercedes tried for W09 (in wind tunnel), but failed and went with low rake. That is the reference.

"The new oil burning clampdown has hit them the hardest. This may be a big issue and Ferrari will need time to find a fix." So Ferrari just discovered oil burning was outlawed this year?
Mercedes who designed their engine from day 1 to burn oil and did gymnastics last year to get around the initial oil burning reduction will suffer no effects?....didnt both manufacturers find out the new regs at the same time? what was Ferrari doing all offseason?

It was Mercedes (in the words of Horner, "Someone who joined Mercedes from Ferrari, went to FIA with questions) who escalated the oil burning issue to FIA, when they saw two seperate oil tanks fitted in Ferrari, in Canada. So, who lost the edge afterwards? Ferrari had to burn normal fuel, more than they were and that started causing fuel consumption issues. Their upgrade on engine failed and they fired their engine chief.

"RB and Merc are known to run heavy in testing. Ferrari not so." I have always wondered where this gem came from....so when Vettel said that he had plenty of fuel after his race sim he was just flat out lying?...RB put on the hypersoft and set a time..Ferrari puts on the hypersoft and sets a time and was faster along with being faster in the race sim..... how does that point to RB being faster?
i will say it now i have no clue which car is ahead other than Merc rb and Ferrari being the top 3 thats my stance.I just hate how speculation by journalists is then argued as fact here.

This is how you would hear, IF THERE IS IN FACT SANDBAGGING! Well, unfortunately, this was 2017.
Ferrari sandbagging a worry, admits Red Bull

[JPBD1990]

There are two factors at work in this assessment of RB being ahead of Ferrari. 1) Ferrari driving to a delta to save fuel & 2) Renault running their power units turned down. Ferrari is having issues in fuel consumption. The new oil burning clampdown has hit them the hardest. This may be a big issue and Ferrari will need time to find a fix. Renault too will run the PU turned down for quite a few months till they get their own ERS. However, RB will have a great upgrade package for Australia. Ferrari I'm not so sure. Many media guys (reliable ones) are saying that Ferrari are not yet fully on top of how to run the car with that High Rake. This again would need time to find a fix. RB and Merc are known to run heavy in testing. Ferrari not so. Hence, the consensus is RB is ahead of Ferrari. I hope not but i am pretty convinced about this.

Only time will tell I suppose. No doubt merc and RB both ran heavy, but I don’t think ferrari’s “quali sims” were done with 3 laps of fuel either. I think the fuel consumption issue is the most pressing, but again they have managed better pace in a race sim despite that.

I’m all for a 3 horse race, and I hope it is. I’m only struggling to reconcile the data with what is being reported. Granted the Ferrari is getting through its fuel - it still went faster than the RB?!

this post is interesting.
lets review the main points you made.
"I think the fuel consumption issue is the most pressing" what fuel consumption issue is the million dollar question???...here are the facts: during Vettels race simulation his lack of tire wear and consistency in lap times followed by a very fast lap at the end of a stint brings one conclusion that most take as true.. Vettel was driving around to a delta. SPECULATION by the british media is that he was masking his performance because of fuel consumption issues. How they came to this conclusion we will never know. common sense says he was masking his performance... why he was masking his performance could be down to sandbagging... is that an option maybe? : )

"are saying that Ferrari are not yet fully on top of how to run the car with that High Rake"
Are you aware that Ferrari ran with high rake last year and led the championship for most of the year?

"The new oil burning clampdown has hit them the hardest. This may be a big issue and Ferrari will need time to find a fix." So Ferrari just discovered oil burning was outlawed this year?
Mercedes who designed their engine from day 1 to burn oil and did gymnastics last year to get around the initial oil burning reduction will suffer no effects?....didnt both manufacturers find out the new regs at the same time? what was Ferrari doing all offseason?

"RB and Merc are known to run heavy in testing. Ferrari not so." I have always wondered where this gem came from....so when Vettel said that he had plenty of fuel after his race sim he was just flat out lying?...RB put on the hypersoft and set a time..Ferrari puts on the hypersoft and sets a time and was faster along with being faster in the race sim..... how does that point to RB being faster?
i will say it now i have no clue which car is ahead other than Merc rb and Ferrari being the top 3 thats my stance.I just hate how speculation by journalists is then argued as fact here.

You’re responding to two different peoples points here... my point was that I didn’t understand how the media had managed to put redbull ahead of Ferrari based on laps done on the same tyres, and the race sim - both of which Ferrari was faster than redbull. I was only trying to demonstrate that I think the media couldn’t possibly know, particularly when the data tells a different story... so I think we’re kind of making the same point?

I mean sure I’m a Ferrari fan, so my issue was specifically around why after being faster on hypersofts, ultrasofts and softs - as well as doing a faster race sim - the media has still got Ferrari pegged as third. It’s just unusual, no? Ultimately, I don’t know - they could be third. They could be first. My point was (possibly poorly made) that we don’t know!

[techman]

I think they will end the season as the worst ranked Renault powered team.

i was ready the article on amus . and according to the article alonso cut the chicane to get that time. i think mclaren will be strong midfield team this season. along with renault and hass. hass for me is the 4th fastest team in testing.

[LM10]

Adrian Newey: "Mercedes is superior in all disciplines. Engine power, fuel consumption, drivability, MGU-H recuperation. You can not make up for that with a better car."

He calls it "formula engine".

From AMuS.

[Restomaniac]

Indeed. Mercedes trucks run forever and have tons of power. Thinking about it Ferrari, Renault and Honda don't have the sheer amount long term experience of dealing with the hugely powerful turbo engines that Mercedes do.

In fact, Renault and Ferrari have had the experience of building Turbo engines for F1 and they didn't get it right for 2014, whereas Mercedes who had NO experience of F1 turbo engines, not just built a powerful one, but also managed to create Split Turbo-Compressor, which no one had thought about. That gave the chassis construction a big boost for packaging. Over the past years, a lot of people try to discredit Mercedes saying, they started early and all that kind of stuff and they do not realize was, it was such an easy thing to get it wrong! By 2012, Mercedes share holders were already calling for pulling the plug on F1 program and their racing team was badly struggling and staring at 5th place finish. Under such circumstances, there should have been enormous pressure on people who were working on F1 project (PU and Chassis), because they were all staring at losing their jobs, had they got it wrong. That is why the architects of their success (Brawn, John Owen, Geoff Willis, Mike Elliott, Andy Cowell, Aldo Costa), deserve all the credit in the world.

Based on all these early reports about various different experts, Ferrari probably have a W08 in their hands and IF INDEED that is true, then we have an opportunity to witness if they have enough strength in depth and can do a Mercedes OR NOT. Was SF70h (2017) was born due to the unlimited wind tunnel time used with the Haas loop hole from 2015 OR do they really have strength in depth that can churn quick & right solutions in quick time.

My point was to back up your post about Mercedes using their Trucks for ideas.

A truck engines power must be off the charts compared to an F1 engine.
That's was my point. As you point out going in house to the people who make some of biggest turbo engines on the planet was always going to be an advantage. All reports pointed to the Mercedes compressor being huge in comparison to the others. As is pointed out in that piece you linked that was all down to looking at a truck compressor. The split design may have been born from the space needed for that.