2018 pre-season testing thread

[dans79]

Adrian Newey: "Mercedes is superior in all disciplines. Engine power, fuel consumption, drivability, MGU-H recuperation. You can not make up for that with a better car."

He calls it "formula engine".

From AMuS.

That article reads like a spoiled child whining because he wants the rules changed to suite they way he wants to play.

[Just_a_fan]

Adrian Newey: "Mercedes is superior in all disciplines. Engine power, fuel consumption, drivability, MGU-H recuperation. You can not make up for that with a better car."

He calls it "formula engine".

From AMuS.

That article reads like a spoiled child whining because he wants the rules changed to suite they way he wants to play.

Yeah, I don't remember him moaning about engines when he had the Renault V10 in the back of his Williams cars. That was the best engine back then. I don't remember him moaning about the Renault V8 when it was allowing him to use various diffuser-blowing tricks. Only once someone else is doing a better engine does he (and Horner, Marko etc.) moan about engines. It has the feeling of people who believe they have a right to win...

[johnny comelately]

Adrian Newey: "Mercedes is superior in all disciplines. Engine power, fuel consumption, drivability, MGU-H recuperation. You can not make up for that with a better car."

He calls it "formula engine".

From AMuS.

That article reads like a spoiled child whining because he wants the rules changed to suite they way he wants to play.

I certainly do not agree with that interpretation of Newey's fair enough assessment.

[johnny comelately]

Adrian Newey: "Mercedes is superior in all disciplines. Engine power, fuel consumption, drivability, MGU-H recuperation. You can not make up for that with a better car."

He calls it "formula engine".

From AMuS.

That article reads like a spoiled child whining because he wants the rules changed to suite they way he wants to play.

Yeah, I don't remember him moaning about engines when he had the Renault V10 in the back of his Williams cars. That was the best engine back then. I don't remember him moaning about the Renault V8 when it was allowing him to use various diffuser-blowing tricks. Only once someone else is doing a better engine does he (and Horner, Marko etc.) moan about engines. It has the feeling of people who believe they have a right to win...

It is wrong to use the word "moaning" and unnecessarily disparaging about a skilled practitioner.

[zac510]

RBR did moan a bit in the early days of using the Renault engine, but it stopped when they started winning.

However he is right, it has been formula engine since 2014 and that's what makes McLaren's aero-first policy seem silly.

[johnny comelately]

RBR did moan a bit in the early days of using the Renault engine, but it stopped when they started winning.
"RBR did moan a bit in the early days of using the Renault engine, but it started when they started stopping".
However he is right, it has been formula engine since 2014 and that's what makes McLaren's aero-first policy seem silly.

[zibby43]

Mercedes' biggest weapon remain their engine, "weapon of an engine" as Horner said. It really isn't easy to outperform a car with the most powerful and at the same time most efficient engine in the back. Being able to use less fuel and more percentage of throttle is a big advantage.

The hybrid era seems to have suited Mercedes the most. The experience on that topic which they had started to gain already years before 2014 might have helped them most among the teams. Also efficient engines are something Mercedes is known for generally. I don't know if this makes sense though, just some amateurish thoughts.

Nonetheless I hope Ferrari and RBR can seriously challenge the silver arrows throughout the season. By further developing and in case of Ferrari somehow solving their fuel saving problem which at the moment seems to be their biggest one.

The Merc power unit is impressive, no doubt.

And so is Merc's aerodynamic efficiency.

Furthermore, now that Merc has had a full season to recover from the last minute suspension ban (courtesy of Ferrari's request of clarification), the chassis/handling package could make a big step forward this season.

Several analysts have noted that during Barcelona testing, the Mercedes looked the quickest and most composed through the slow corners. Last year, Merc was mighty at fast tracks loaded with sweeping corners like Silverstone, Suzuka, Spa, etc. If they've truly rectified the issue with slower corners, the W09 may be better suited to circuits like Hungary.

[NathanOlder]

Adrian Newey: "Mercedes is superior in all disciplines. Engine power, fuel consumption, drivability, MGU-H recuperation. You can not make up for that with a better car."

He calls it "formula engine".

From AMuS.

That article reads like a spoiled child whining because he wants the rules changed to suite they way he wants to play.

I put it down to spending too much time with Marko and Horner. It seems the Aero people moan more about it being an Engine formula than the Engine people moaned about it being an Aero Formula.

I'm sure Enzo would have preferred these current regs compared to the previous 20years.

[Juzh]

Adrian Newey: "Mercedes is superior in all disciplines. Engine power, fuel consumption, drivability, MGU-H recuperation. You can not make up for that with a better car."

He calls it "formula engine".

From AMuS.

That article reads like a spoiled child whining because he wants the rules changed to suite they way he wants to play.

Yeah, I don't remember him moaning about engines when he had the Renault V10 in the back of his Williams cars. That was the best engine back then. I don't remember him moaning about the Renault V8 when it was allowing him to use various diffuser-blowing tricks. Only once someone else is doing a better engine does he (and Horner, Marko etc.) moan about engines. It has the feeling of people who believe they have a right to win...

Renault's cold blowing was inferior to mercs hot blowing (to the point it wasn't even close, if we are to base our assumptions on the fact that 10% open throttle while hot blowing was worth renault's 50% while cold blowing - that's from silverstone 2011). After off throttle blowing was banned and exhaust positioning heavily restricted all the supposed renault advantages you're making up were gone anyway. What did stay was unreliability and low power.

As for the mercedes V6. Name one area in which newey is incorrect in that statement:

Mercedes is superior in all disciplines. Engine power, fuel consumption, drivability, MGU-H recuperation

I'll wait.
He should have added reliability on top of that.

[Just_a_fan]

As for the mercedes V6. Name one area in which newey is incorrect in that statement:

Mercedes is superior in all disciplines. Engine power, fuel consumption, drivability, MGU-H recuperation

I'll wait.
He should have added reliability on top of that.

No need to wait - he's correct that the Mercedes is the best engine on the grid. But that's not their fault. They spent a shed load of cash developing the best engine on the grid so they are quite rightly reaping the rewards of that. Perhaps RedBull should develop their own engine if they're not happy. They've spent several years moaning about Renault so I say "shut up and put up". Show us how great RedBull is and build the entire package just like Mercedes and Ferrari.

F1 is about who can build the best car. Not just the best aero package or just the best engine but the best car. Mercedes have done that for several years and won the titles to prove it. Ferrari came close last year but lost their way mid season. RedBull just moaned. A lot. It's got very boring to listen to.

[f1316]

I don’t know if it’s already been posted, and rarely do I agree with Andrew Benson, but I think this article is fairly sensible and addresses a lot of the caveats that the doom mongers (it’s pretty doomy to think Mercedes are so far ahead) predict:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/43337930

Now i’ll admit that I do actively want the situation not to be a clear and large advantage for Mercedes but that’s not the reason I think the article’s good; I think what it actually represents is that there are more unknowns than usual this year - owing to some wildly different programs being run by teams, Mercedes not doing a representative simulation of an actual race, Ferrari being faster on all the softer compounds, the track, talk of fuel consumption issues etc. It’s really less clear cut than ever.

I do get a ‘sense’ - and I talked about this at the start of testing, about how one just gets a feeling for that who’s fast from an overall pattern of things - that Mercedes were comfortably within themselves, and that on the medium tyre, in these conditions and this track, they had a fairly healthy margin in race trim. But I also get a sense that they’re not so comfortable on softer compounds - perhaps partly because they think the track/conditions are unrepresentative- and that there’s still a large unknown there.

Also I think it’s clear from comments that Red Bull themselves feel the gap is not massive to Mercedes and that they think Ferrari are a similar level to them:

"The other day [it was] maybe a bit like that, but Ferrari turned it up the last couple of days, they had pretty good pace. And then you see some other teams throw in some quick times.

"I think we still do have some laptime to find, but I do believe we're in the ballpark.” Ricciardo

Likewise, I think Ferrari are more confident than a lot of people are saying:

“I’m sure if we want to go faster, we can, but it doesn’t mean anything here...“I think overall it’s a strong package. Obviously, there are always things to improve, and that’s normal with any car, even if you win races. But it’s very reliable, it seems to work in a pretty easy way.” Kimi


So all in all, if I had to make a prediction, it would be that the ballpark gap from Mercedes back to the other two is around 0.3s but that this could shrink in quali (dependent on who has what quali modes still - we just don’t know on that) and grow in a race where fuel consumption is tight.

[RZS10]

I don't know what all this has to do with "pre season testing" but ....

The entire article reads like "How to design F1 rules in a way which would suit Adrian Newey the most" ...

Just the main points in the article and his arguments/suggestions:

- Mercedes is superior in all disciplines. Engine power, fuel consumption, drivability, MGU-H recuperation
- they "invest" the additional power into more DF (e.g. see rear wing)
- they have 1000 people working on chassis compared to 800 at RBR
- RBR has 125 people working on aero, Merc almost double which 'automatically leads to a higher output' (of ideas)
- he calls the idea of a budget cap and 'fair' payout from Liberty 'socialism' which never worked in real life (only in theory)

He suggests
- limit the usage of 'tools' -> less people needed
- ban wind tunnels (he calls them 'dinosaurs' heading for extinction anyways)
- only use CFD
- use standard CFD software with limited computing power/steps
- this would make the ingenuity of experienced engineers more important (he totally did not mean himself by this ... lol)

- ban telemetry
- limit data gathering to a minimum
- this would make simulations and testing benches less important without data for correlation (funny since they had issues with exactly that)

- only allow a certain number (he says 5) of aero specs for parts per season which have to be homologated by the FIA

- limit the number of dyno runs for engines
- use simpler engines
- stop pretending that the engines are somehow related to the road going engines of the manufacturers because no one will use the tech like MGU-H anyways
- use engines which aren't used on the roads anymore (loud, powerful, brutal) to set F1 apart from road cars, making it more exciting
- make the cars lighter

If there's some grave mistakes in the translation feel free to correct it but i think i got the gist of it ... if this doesn't belong here feel free to move it to the right place

[Unc1eM0nty]

That article reads like a spoiled child whining because he wants the rules changed to suite they way he wants to play.

Yeah, I don't remember him moaning about engines when he had the Renault V10 in the back of his Williams cars. That was the best engine back then. I don't remember him moaning about the Renault V8 when it was allowing him to use various diffuser-blowing tricks. Only once someone else is doing a better engine does he (and Horner, Marko etc.) moan about engines. It has the feeling of people who believe they have a right to win...

Renault's cold blowing was inferior to mercs hot blowing (to the point it wasn't even close, if we are to base our assumptions on the fact that 10% open throttle while hot blowing was worth renault's 50% while cold blowing - that's from silverstone 2011). After off throttle blowing was banned and exhaust positioning heavily restricted all the supposed renault advantages you're making up were gone anyway. What did stay was unreliability and low power.

As for the mercedes V6. Name one area in which newey is incorrect in that statement:

Mercedes is superior in all disciplines. Engine power, fuel consumption, drivability, MGU-H recuperation

I'll wait.
He should have added reliability on top of that.

If the engine is such a massive advantage then why aren't Williams & Force India up there fighting with Ferrari and Redbull ?

[Restomaniac]

Adrian Newey: "Mercedes is superior in all disciplines. Engine power, fuel consumption, drivability, MGU-H recuperation. You can not make up for that with a better car."

He calls it "formula engine".

From AMuS.

That article reads like a spoiled child whining because he wants the rules changed to suite they way he wants to play.

I put it down to spending too much time with Marko and Horner. It seems the Aero people moan more about it being an Engine formula than the Engine people moaned about it being an Aero Formula.

I'm sure Enzo would have preferred these current regs compared to the previous 20years.

For me this is the issue. It ties in nicely with 2017 and Ferrari too.

Whilst teams and moaning and asking the FIA for clarifications their focus isn't where it should be.

Let us look at Ferrari as a good example. In 2017 they went crying to the FIA over the trick suspension and got it banned and got within a whisker of a title. They probably may have got it too if they hadn't taken their eye off the ball (They may have thought that torpedoing Mercedes was enough so they could relax a little). What happened in the last 12 months? Mercedes just once again out thought Ferrari and found a work around. If Ferrari had spent as much time trying to out think the opposition as they do looking at what the opposition are doing and how to get stuff banned they would be in a much better place.

A person or team that is always looking for a corner cut, an easy out or squaking 'It's not fair' will never address their own failings. Yes Mercedes may have 1000 people working on their car but that is their decision to make. Moaning and crying about it won't change that only beating them by doing it better anyway will.

BTW this isn't an anti Ferrari post it's just that their current situation is a good example.

[Xwang]

As for the mercedes V6. Name one area in which newey is incorrect in that statement:

Mercedes is superior in all disciplines. Engine power, fuel consumption, drivability, MGU-H recuperation

I'll wait.
He should have added reliability on top of that.

No need to wait - he's correct that the Mercedes is the best engine on the grid. But that's not their fault. They spent a shed load of cash developing the best engine on the grid so they are quite rightly reaping the rewards of that. Perhaps RedBull should develop their own engine if they're not happy. They've spent several years moaning about Renault so I say "shut up and put up". Show us how great RedBull is and build the entire package just like Mercedes and Ferrari.

F1 is about who can build the best car. Not just the best aero package or just the best engine but the best car. Mercedes have done that for several years and won the titles to prove it. Ferrari came close last year but lost their way mid season. RedBull just moaned. A lot. It's got very boring to listen to.

I agree with you.