2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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Zynerji
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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Mr Brooksy wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 03:57
I think Lowe has said that the car is understeering and oversteering and it is not consistent. My uneducated guess is that this would be very hard to make changes to the setup to combat.

A consistently understeering car would be easier to troubleshoot, as would be a consistently oversteering car. But when the balance swings back and forth seemingly randomly, I can't imagine the headache that would be to diagnose and rectify!

My concern is that over the recent years, Williams has struggled to get their head around cars that haven't been straightforward. 2013 was a disaster when they simply couldn't get their heads around the coanda (sorry for spelling) exhaust, 2016 then the upgraded front wing simply made the car worse even though the wind tunnel said it should have been a great step forward. And they've had big issues since 2014 with low speed grip.

Can Paddy and Dirk get the team to understand a complex car? I hope so, but I dear it will just take a long time.
My 3rd party race sim setup diagnosis would be aero starvation of the front of the floor. Id stiffen the front 3rd spring, and lower the rear ride height by 2mm.

Easy to say tho when you don't really die if you are wrong at 200mph.

Webber2011
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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From Autosport.

On a frigid Barcelona Monday, it couldn't pass without comic mention that the arrival of a new Russian driver in Formula 1 coincided with the passage of the 'Beast from the East' weather front through much of Europe.

But that chilly blast was no laughing matter for F1, cocooned though it is from most real-world happenings, since chunks of the first three days' running were wiped out.
Indeed, so bracing was it at the Circuit de Catalunya that the small throng who assembled behind the Williams garage on March 26 to capture the thoughts of Sergey Sirotkin after his first run in the Williams FW41 could talk of little but how wretchedly cold it was.

The main man showed no signs of distress, however, looking commendably upbeat as he emerged from the womb of the Williams garage into the bitter early evening.
He even managed to crack a joke: "Will I enjoy driving in these conditions tomorrow [his second test slot] ?
Huh! Of course you enjoy driving Formula 1.
It doesn't matter what programme you do.
But for sure we didn't get the max from the day."

The moment captured a pragmatic directness, somewhere south of blunt but well north of vanilla, and it was entirely in character according to one compatriot who knows Sergey well.

Dmitry Belousov has worked with Sirotkin since his 2013 Formula Renault 3.5 season, in his capacity as executive director of SMP Racing - a programme established with the explicit intent of unearthing a racing star from Russia or eastern Europe.
"Sergey is a very determined character," says Belousov, "as you will see this season.
He is very talented and a worker, too.
But more than anything, he is very strong mentally."

Even in the snapshot back-of-the garage moment after a largely abortive first afternoon in his 2018 race car, a hint of this quality was manifest.
Some drivers would be more wide-eyed after their 'first day at school', others more downbeat at the weather-induced lack of competitive lapping.
Sirotkin? Phlegmatic - immediately compartmentalising the experience just past, while processing it for the next.

Perhaps we should expect nothing less of this 22-year-old who can boast 'engineering degree' on his CV alongside the racing record.
A wealthy background and SMP support have eased the path to F1 beyond conventional imagining (his place at Williams owes something to a stipend estimated to be around $20m), but the silver spoon feeds a native hunger and intelligence.

"Last year, being out of racing as reserve driver for Renault nearly killed him," confides Belousov.
"He really had to learn to be patient."

Having been given his F1 break, Sirotkin is in no mood to wait any longer.
During the off-season he relocated from Russia to live within 20 minutes' commute of Williams HQ.
And by all accounts the team can't keep him away, as he has availed himself daily of their fitness facilities while building a rapport with engineering staff.

His academic fluency in engineering matters has already impressed Williams chief technical officer Paddy Lowe.
"He understands technical things very quickly," notes Lowe, "and he's a very clever guy.
He also has a fantastic work ethic and is very mature for his age.
He's a pleasure to work with."

Deputy team boss Claire Williams is another fan: "He's a lovely guy," she says, "and I think he's going to impress people this year as he's incredibly keen to prove his talent.
I definitely hope that he does.
When we announced him I think some people were surprised, but if we didn't have faith we wouldn't have put him in the line-up.
He was chosen after the most exhaustive evaluation we have ever done."

A race card that boasts consecutive third-place finishes in the GP2 championship in 2015 and '16 leaves little doubt that Sirotkin knows how to turn a wheel, as do three wins along the way.
"Sergey has done a very solid apprenticeship in motor racing," says Lowe, "and the SMP programme is really tremendous.
So he's ready to make that step up to F1 and it's exciting to see what we'll be able to do."

All very on-message, but Sirotkin will surely face greater challenges this season than a forbidding weather front - not least of which may come from within the team.

It's a matter of record that his drive was secured relatively late in the day after the team had completed evaluation of the post-season tests that pitched him against Robert Kubica, now Williams' third driver.

Despite Kubica's being very much the fans' favourite for the race seat - his comeback from a life-threatening injury is among F1's greatest ever feel-good stories - Kubica's pace proved inconclusive.
He found it impossible to generate sufficient 'core' heat in the Pirellis on the ultra-smooth Yas Marina Circuit, preventing him from setting sufficiently quick one-lap times.

Doubts were raised, therefore, about his ultimate pace.
Kubica offered assurances that with time and testing he'd unlock more speed by perfecting tyre preparation, but Williams found itself incapable of making the romantics' choice.
They opted instead for Sirotkin, comfortable in the knowledge that he had hit every target set and would bring a sackful of dollars, if signed.

Nonetheless, a funny little thing happened on the Tuesday afternoon of Barcelona, as Kubica settled into his first FW41 run in near-freezing conditions.
It wasn't that Kubica set a headline best lap time of 1m21.495s, more than three-tenths faster than Sirotkin's then best of 1m21.822s; temperatures and track conditions were so out of the ordinary they rendered direct comparison almost - but not entirely - moot.

No, more significant was Lowe's response to the question of how Williams might react should Kubica - currently confined to a test and reserve role - prove to be their fastest driver.

A 13-second silence followed F1R's innocently posed question, before Lowe simply answered: "There is no answer to that question."

Not yet, anyway.


https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature/80 ... e-doubters

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dren
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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Well Sirotkin is off the pace of Stroll who isn't close to a top driver. This pairing is the worst on the grid. The car isn't looking too hot at the moment, either.
Honda!

netoperek
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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Image

tinvek
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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from the outside, the one thing we can't tell is how much of the problems with the car are actually down to the drivers? a car that understeers and then oversteers could partly be down to a driver trying to take too much speed into a bend, overloading the fronts and then when the speed drops off and the front finds grip, the driver isn't on top of the situation and the increase in front grip causes the rear to become loose. williams desperately need to get kubica in the car to provide them with a better bench mark and in particular with some experienced feedback, at the moment they have 2 drivers, 1 of who'm has just 1 season's experience and came into F1 too early and hasn't the technical experience and 1 who's literally just starting his career, even sauber has a more experienced driver line up. without kubica getting regular seat time, williams i'm afraid has set itself up to fail if there are any problem areas in the car and the short term gain of the money from serotkin may turn out to be a long term financial loss if they finish behind everyone but sauber, especially given the need to attract a good sponsorship package for next season

netoperek
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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We'll see in Barcelona how Robert will fare with the car in FP. Get prepared for "it's only testing, times cannot be compared" and "they were all driving different programmes" in case it turns out that more experienced and/or talented driver can extract more from this car. I'm curious to see Sergey's racecraft tomorrow. I'm not expecting a rookie to pull out a masterpiece, but I hope he can at least keep his cool and maybe even attack a position if situation allows it.

Raleigh
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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Car is on the pace of Force India, unfortunately that says more about FI being slow than Williams moving forward.

From the sounds of it the car is inconsistently losing front or rear downforce on turn-in, I imagine it’s difficult to drive when you don’t know how much grip you are going to have going into the corner.

Most of the aero is Mercedes or Ferrari inspired but the combination is new, I’m cautiously optimistic that this is just a case of figuring out the new approach and getting parts to play nice together rather than a fundamentally slow car.

netoperek
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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http://en.f1i.com/news/298113-villeneuv ... claim.html

LOL. According to JV its all Kubica's fault!

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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netoperek wrote:
24 Mar 2018, 18:17
http://en.f1i.com/news/298113-villeneuv ... claim.html

LOL. According to JV its all Kubica's fault!
It wouldn't surprise me if JV turned out to be a flat-earther. I think most of the time he's just saying things to get the headlines.
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren

Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

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mith
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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netoperek wrote:
24 Mar 2018, 18:17
http://en.f1i.com/news/298113-villeneuv ... claim.html

LOL. According to JV its all Kubica's fault!
If that craziness would by any chance happened to be true that would just mean that both Williams drivers have no idea what they are doing and are just kids who need an adult to set up their toys... It almost sounds like Villeneuve is praising Kubica here :lol:

bill shoe
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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netoperek wrote:
24 Mar 2018, 18:17
http://en.f1i.com/news/298113-villeneuv ... claim.html

LOL. According to JV its all Kubica's fault!
We have no specific evidence it's happening, but it seems entirely plausible. What's Kubica's incentive vs. Williams' incentive? I don't think they have the same incentives.

Stalker1
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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Raleigh wrote:
24 Mar 2018, 17:39
From the sounds of it the car is inconsistently losing front or rear downforce on turn-in, I imagine it’s difficult to drive when you don’t know how much grip you are going to have going into the corner.

Most of the aero is Mercedes or Ferrari inspired but the combination is new, I’m cautiously optimistic that this is just a case of figuring out the new approach and getting parts to play nice together rather than a fundamentally slow car.
You probably already have read that but PlatinumZealot wrote a couple of pages ago: "Pitch sensitivity of the aerodynamics. On braking when yhe ar pitches forward all the detailed vortices and flow structures go out of whack. In other words they have a lot of work to do on the front wing and the bargeboards!"

Lowe admitted after the test in Barcelona, that they got lost with finding the right setup. It seems to me that the issues are not set-up related but rather design related, including suspension design. Maybe the problems with keeping consistent airflow over the cars surfaces are also related to the problem that the suspension does not hold constant ride height during braking and acceleration periods.

netoperek
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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mith wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 16:52
netoperek wrote:
24 Mar 2018, 18:17
http://en.f1i.com/news/298113-villeneuv ... claim.html

LOL. According to JV its all Kubica's fault!
If that craziness would by any chance happened to be true that would just mean that both Williams drivers have no idea what they are doing and are just kids who need an adult to set up their toys... It almost sounds like Villeneuve is praising Kubica here :lol:
Who knows... Maybe he is a secret admirer, just trying to decieve everybody. After all, Kubica booted him from BMW into unplanned retirement, so it wouldn't be too smart to belittle Robert's skills :D Though his comments IMO aren't exactly pure words of wisdom in many cases :P
As tinvek said, we don't know how much of the problems with the car are actually down to the drivers. Now we have some more insight from people in the team.
Rob Smedley after Q said that boys just can't handle the car due to low confidence. Lance is a little bit better, but he also couldn't exploit full potencial "there's definitely few more tenths on the table" as he said in Karun's interwiev. Lowe isn't too happy about them too. Both Kubica and Lowe expected the car to be more less on the edge of Q3 pace wise. The former said after Q it would be inappriopriate for him to say what he really thinks of the results, as it's not his place to judge, which I guess says all there is to say. And that was just the qualy. Now add all the constant mode and settings changes, tyre and fuel management, other competitors and most of all, expand it to 90 minutes of a race.
Sad part was when after Q, team shifted target into "at least finish the race", which unfortunately happened to be a quite valid assessment. Lance admitted after race there was too much going on in the car for him to do the racing, so he focused on bringing it home. Can't blame Sergey that a plastic bag got into his brakes and caused malfunction, that was unfortunate and could happen to anyone. Car issues aside, we still don't know if and how he can handle it in race conditions and I for one had been very curious about it.
It seems, that Williams new creation is a bit of a diva (which shouldn't be too surprising with an "ambitious" design path taken), RK admitted it himself after Barcelona and said that he will focus his job on helping to make it more driveable, so young guns can have it a little bit easier to extract some speed from it and gain on confidence. I guess its hard to expect LS and SS to be able to handle a difficult car from the get go, given their limited experience, so we shouldn't be bashing them (too hard) for it, IF it really turns out that the problems lie, at least partialy, on drivers side.
It would make Williams 2 rookie lineup decision look even more stupid, though.

netoperek
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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Stalker1 wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 17:52
Raleigh wrote:
24 Mar 2018, 17:39
From the sounds of it the car is inconsistently losing front or rear downforce on turn-in, I imagine it’s difficult to drive when you don’t know how much grip you are going to have going into the corner.

Most of the aero is Mercedes or Ferrari inspired but the combination is new, I’m cautiously optimistic that this is just a case of figuring out the new approach and getting parts to play nice together rather than a fundamentally slow car.
You probably already have read that but PlatinumZealot wrote a couple of pages ago: "Pitch sensitivity of the aerodynamics. On braking when yhe ar pitches forward all the detailed vortices and flow structures go out of whack. In other words they have a lot of work to do on the front wing and the bargeboards!"

Lowe admitted after the test in Barcelona, that they got lost with finding the right setup. It seems to me that the issues are not set-up related but rather design related, including suspension design. Maybe the problems with keeping consistent airflow over the cars surfaces are also related to the problem that the suspension does not hold constant ride height during braking and acceleration periods.
That wouldn't corespond with previous drivers assessments. After Barcelona, Lance said "i feel we have a pretty good car", Sergey said similar stuff about good feeling in the car. Robert said (after giving his seat time) that thursdays morning was enough for him to get a proper feeling of a car, isolate strong and weak points and relate them to the engineers. He said that balance and overall feel of the car should be improved, but there's pretty clear picture of what needs to be adressed - "its up to drivers to optimise those things" he added, so it should be setup related. Then, after friday when team hit a setback with setups he threw a loose comment in AMuS interview on how drivers got lazy those days, expecting constant instructions from their engineers on what and when to change, when to speed up or where to slow down :) Though it might have been unrelated :P On more serious note though, Robert suggested after Barcelona, that there are some question marks over the tyres. They seemed to be too sensitive to changing conditions for Roberts taste and that they needed to widen the operation window as much as possible, so Lance and Sergey can feel more comfortable - "its important, because Lance and Sergey are relatively unexperienced". It would suggest, that a main problem of a FW41 was getting to and keeping optimal working temps on the tyres - that needs either a car thats easier/more predictable on them or a careful driver that can control their condition very well.
From what I read, Paddy said car is a bit nervous on the corner entry and tends to oversteer - haven't found any of his comments suggesting a random behaviour (as posted below), would be grateful if anyone could point me to it.

Sorry my posts were not very technical at this point, but I was trying to put together and read something from official comments, and those that i found aren't very detailed, so I feel that "pure speculation mode on" disclaimer is in place.

Stalker1
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Re: 2018 Williams F1 Racing - Mercedes

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- Lance Stroll finished 14th in the Australian Grand Prix, with Sergey Sirotkin retiring on his Formula One race debut
- Both cars started on the supersoft Pirelli tyre, with Lance starting in 13th and Sergey 19th
- Lance lost a place to the Mercedes of Valtteri Bottas early on whilst Sergey retired on lap four with a rear brake failure
- Lance first pitted on lap 25 for a set of soft tyres
- The safety car was deployed on lap 28 when the Haas of Romain Grosjean stopped out on track, allowing Lance to make a second and final pitstop for ultrasoft tyres

Paddy Lowe, Chief Technical Officer: That wasn’t an afternoon to remember. Firstly, for Sergey, very early in the race he had a failure of the rear brakes. Our provisional analysis is that a plastic bag has been collected on the circuit, completely blocking the brake cooling, so that the right rear corner caught fire and eventually failed the hydraulics circuit. His brake pedal went to the floor and he had to go down the escape lane. That was the end of his race which is very unfortunate because it was his first F1 race and what he really needed to do was get some distance behind him so he could come back for the second event with race experience our objective, which we didn’t achieve for him today. In Lance’s case, we were struggling a lot with pace throughout the afternoon. Like a number of other teams, we’re managing fuel consumption. Our fight was for 13th and unfortunately Lance lost the position to Leclerc under the safety car restart. He had a number of attempts to retake the position but with managing temperatures we had to drop back two or three times and we never made it stick.


Lance Stroll: We were in the wrong mode on the first lap and that is the reason Ocon got me. We also have none of the extra power we need for the safety car restart which is where I lost the place to Leclerc. We are just basically trying to get the car to the end of the race instead of racing. There was a lot going on today with big issues that cost us a lot of race time. I hope we can find the solution before Bahrain.

Sergey Sirotkin: It didn’t go as expected and I’m not even talking in terms of the results, which we obviously wanted to achieve but didn’t. I’m talking about the learning, which we didn’t get. It’s a bit of a shame and I’m quite disappointed with that because it’s not ideal and it was not the easiest weekend for me. It was quite important to do a good race. Preparing for the Bahrain weekend, at least I know I have a good chance so we’re looking forward. In just two weeks we’ll be back at the track and we’ll work harder than ever. I’m sure we’ll get to where we deserve to be.