2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

[Marti_EF3]

It's only my imagination, or it seems Honda PU have the revlimit lower than the others?? On the Hartley onboard view on the straight, it looked like..

I was expecting a little more, but its not that bad if we think that both drivers are rookies on this track, and a little experience in F1. And the car is behind the schedule on development with the Honda PU swap. We need to wait the first races, and on the European season we will start to see some real improvements.

[cyro_666]

It's only my imagination, or it seems Honda PU have the revlimit lower than the others?? On the Hartley onboard view on the straight, it looked like..

I was expecting a little more, but its not that bad if we think that both drivers are rookies on this track, and a little experience in F1. And the car is behind the schedule on development with the Honda PU swap. We need to wait the first races, and on the European season we will start to see some real improvements.

I haven't really paid attention to that, but it could also mean different gear ratios.

[sn809]

..... Toro Rosso did media presentations but always said that Honda will meet Renault engine mid season.

That's what Honda has been saying for the last three years, that they will catch Renault by mid-season and leapfrog them by the end of the season.

You obviously didn't read the rest of the post. Focus on the positive points I have mentioned which are the main difference between yesteryear and this year. Engine did not die on track for the first time. Before from a dying engine they went stable and then a bit of low gear power. Ergo if you extrapolate that it means they will improve the power as well as speed as the season progresses.

It will be interesting what sort of start they get tomorrow.

[Fulcrum]

Some non-scientific data:

• Total improvement - taking fastest qualifying lap of each team - from Australia 2017 to Australia 2018 is about 1 second across all teams.

• Mercedes-powered cars have improved by about 0.8 seconds per lap.

• Ferrari-powered cars have improved by the same margin as Mercedes-powered cars.

• Renault-powered cars have improved by more than 1 second per lap (about 1.5 seconds).

• McLaren have improved the most, about 1.75 seconds a lap.

• Toro Rosso have improved the least. On the basis of qualifying, they're about as fast as last year.

At this point one could suggest that, because Renault-powered cars are 1.5 seconds faster, and Toro Rosso is no faster than last year, the Honda engine is 1.5 seconds slower than the 2018 Renault engine.

However, there are other mitigating factors such as:

• Toro Rosso making a late switch to Honda power.

• Toro Rosso running a new, and highly inexperienced driver lineup.

• The difference in improvement between Red Bull + Renault vs. McLaren is relatively small; McLaren improved by 1.75 seconds relative to Red Bull + Renault improving by 1.5 seconds.

It is difficult to quantify the true influence of the above, especially considering Renault's times have also improved (on average) thanks to the addition of Sainz, which has detracted from Toro Rosso itself.

However, I think it is safe to conclude two things:

• I'd expect McLaren to show further improvement in future races. The difference in performance between Honda power and Renault power is certainly larger than 0.25 seconds, and chassis integration of the power unit should unlock some additional time with optimisation.

• The gap between Honda and Renault power (2018) is likely less than 1.5 seconds on this track. As per the above reasoning, Toro Rosso have almost certainly had to compromise their layout to begin with. More potential should evidence itself as the situation improves.

• Making some assumptions about the driver quality, and relative experience, I'd put the deficit to Renault at about 1 second a lap relative to the Melbourne circuit layout.

[Sayeman]

Wondering what Redbull will do. Renault has given them the May deadline, but I dont see Honda making meaningful improvements by then.

Would it be too crazy to suggest that Redbull will stick to Renault power and Honda leaves the sport by the end of the year? Honda and TR have been sweet talking each other, but Honda wont be hanging around to supply a small low-budget team.

[makecry]

Wondering what Redbull will do. Renault has given them the May deadline, but I dont see Honda making meaningful improvements by then.

Would it be too crazy to suggest that Redbull will stick to Renault power and Honda leaves the sport by the end of the year?

I dont think Honda would leave the sport. RedBull can stick to Renault power yes, I honestly dont think Renault is as bad as RedBull lets on, anyway Honda has it's own topic, I think this discussion is better suited for that.

[etusch]

Brendon Hartley: "It was a little frustrating today, I think one tenth would have moved us up a few places and the car definitely had it in it. In the last lap there were a couple of small errors and it's frustrating to be so close to the cut off to Q2. I knew there would be huge track evolution through the run but we decided to go out first - a lot earlier than the other car - which could be considered a disadvantage but it gave us the option to maybe do two laps at the end. I think it was the right call, I just didn't quite get everything out of it to get to Q2. The good thing is the car was definitely quick enough to get to Q2 today. This morning was really encouraging in mixed conditions and equally on the long run yesterday, so I think our strength is our long run pace. Once this said, this track it's probably one of the hardest on the calendar to pass - it's a tall order! Tyre degradation will be a big story, so maybe managing tyres and a good strategy can bring us into the game. We're in that midfield battle, passing will be hard tomorrow and we'll do our best... we'll have to wait and see."

Pierre Gasly: "I'm really disappointed because it's not the first qualifying we wanted and I think there was potential to get into Q2. It was very close after the first run, but I just pushed too hard and locked up... and that was it, it was the only lap we had and by pushing hard I made a mistake. Up until Turn 3 I was two-tenths up on Brendon but this midfield is so tight that we need to get everything right. The degradation is quite high around here and at the moment we still don't know what the conditions will be like tomorrow, so we need to come back and I'll push hard to overtake. It's difficult to pass around this track so P20 is not ideal, but we'll do everything we can to gain positions. I think the car definitely has more potential so I'm ready for a fight tomorrow."

James Key (Technical Director): "It was disappointing to be out in Q1, we knew it was going to be very tight in the midfield, just a few tenths made a big difference today and I expect this will be the case in many of the races to come. Q2 was a possibility, unfortunately we missed an opportunity with Pierre when he missed his second lap, we could see how quickly the track was evolving so it was important to run again late in the Q1 session and sadly we did not achieve that with him. Brendon put a reasonable lap together, just shy of a couple of tenths which would have made all of the difference, but that's part of the learning process. We need to look at the data from the chassis side too and see what we could have improved on. We are aware we have a bit of work to do in general on our performance level over one lap and in such a tight field this is critical for qualifying position. We will now plan for tomorrow and do the best we can in the race, here in Melbourne anything is possible and our goal of scoring points this weekend has not changed. We've said from the outset that this is a building year, we are going to start off at a certain level and plan end up significantly better, we've got a long way ahead of us with this being the first of 21 races and we've got many plans in place to get to where we believe we need to be. This is step one of many steps."

Toyoharu Tanabe (Honda F1 Technical Director): "Although the morning rain stopped around midday, FP3 was still run almost entirely on a damp track. However, it dried out right at the end and qualifying was run in the dry. It was disappointing that both cars got no further than FP1. However, in general the drivers' comments about the car are positive and the gap in qualifying to those directly ahead of us is very small. In the past, we have seen that anything can happen at this track, so we will now work on being as well prepared as possible for the race, ready to make the most of any opportunity."

[dren]

The car was capable of Q2 and looks to be fighting with Williams and FI, both Mercedes powered cars.

[techman]

honda are bit unlucky , TR has new drivers so will take some time for them to adapt to different circuits. give them a few races , it will get better. race pace is good, and quali i believe gasly could have into q2. so there are some positive to be taken.

[ispano6]

Sainz and Kvyat's experience might have helped show more of Honda's gains relative to the rest of the field. TR ended up 7th in the constructors championship and arguably got out developed by the end of the year. The loss in prize money from 6th to 7th might have affected this year's development but at least Honda can now direct money toward engine development instead of an overpaid driver.

[Sayeman]

The car was capable of Q2 and looks to be fighting with Williams and FI, both Mercedes powered cars.

FI is very good at developing their cars over the year while Williams now have paddy lowe. On the other hand Torro rosso seems to go backwards as the year progresses (I could be wrong). Lrets ee what happens

[Sayeman]

At least Honda can now direct money toward engine development instead of an overpaid driver.

Still nowhere near the money the others have invested in PU development

[ArcticWolfie]

I honestly expected a bit more from the car + engine, but luckily the gap isn't that big. They have 2 rookie drivers and I think they haven't brought an updated rear yet, which is probably the biggest compromise they had to make to fit the Honda engine. I expect them to move up during the season, because the engine is sounding/looking good.

[HPD]

TR was the only team that did not improve its time compared to 2017. Lost 0.1

This is what bothers me

[Big Tea]

Wondering what Redbull will do. Renault has given them the May deadline, but I dont see Honda making meaningful improvements by then.

Would it be too crazy to suggest that Redbull will stick to Renault power and Honda leaves the sport by the end of the year? Honda and TR have been sweet talking each other, but Honda wont be hanging around to supply a small low-budget team.

You say May deadline, I thought Renault had said 'go away' anyway, you do not have a choice?
Can they still opt to use Renault next year?